TXJune ’10 Exams POLL – Paper F6 was … Post your comments here

Ohhh let's finish that unproductive discussion and wait till August.
My conclusion is:
YES - questions were different, (by different I mean style/layout etc)
NO - there wasn't anything outside syllabus
I understand your frustration as I'm frustrated as well - due to 'shock' I have freaked out and made some silly errors.
And yes, I was also hoping for good marks, scored over 90 on the mock exam, done all revision kit etc... but because of that i have learned answering for the questions automatically as they were all similar and it didn't help at this particular exam
And yes, I'm hoping for 50 too, but I wouldn't blame examiner for my fail.
He was trying to test our brains and knowledge about the subject not our knowledge about how to answer for standard questions....

Was harder compared to last sitting i am hoping for 50.

Was it me or where the hell did that vat come from in Ques.#1 concerning the sales and other expenses, the examiner did a good one on us this sitting. I am hopping for 50

@acltang72 said:
@owensn
Nope you still missed the point. Read my post carefully. It wasn't the content i was talking about, it was the QUANTITY of the content.

I made a number of blunders in the first question but was able to spot them after having done the calculations, I also got extremely nervous when the paper started and wasted some time getting a hold of myself. But I was STILL able to complete the paper, the above posters remark of having done the paper 15mins earlier seem very reasonable to me as I would have been able to do that as well if not for the above reasons.

Q1 was long yes but it constituted 30% of the marks so you essentially have an hour for it. Q2 wasn't as long as it was difficult and it shouldn't take more than 45mins to do unless you don't actually know how to do it.

Q4 and 5 were the real time gaining questions, theory actually takes a lot less time provided again that you actually know what to write and are at least somewhat comfortable in writing.

I had already started doing the adjustments of part A of Q1 during the reading time on the question paper, yes calculations don't count on the question paper but copying hardly takes any time so I thought that was the best way to use up the reading time by just doing the question which had 30 marks.
I never agreed with the 1.8min per mark thing to determine how much time should be given to a question, I was frequently able to do the shorter past exam questions well before the time but mostly the 25 and 30 mark questions seemed too long to do within the time without making a blunder or 2. Q4 and 5 in other formats as well simply weren't detailed enough for it to be necessary to read the question more than once.

If you are able to do the f6 pilot paper on time then I honestly don't see how you can have problems with this papers length, it's the last thing one can complain about in my opinion.

Here's something for everyone complaining.

The june 2009 paper has an ENTIRE 15 mark question on VAT and there are a total of 12 marks on self assessment. That makes it 27% of the paper, clearly people who werent prepared for VAT and self assessment and calling them "unimportant" topics didnt do their homework.

If we look at this paper the story is very similar. 10 separate marks for VAT and an adjustment of VAT in trading profits so maximum of 15 marks for VAT. We have 10 marks on self assessment in Q4(tax avoidance/evasion and your personal stand on the matter had nothing to do with self assessment and were infact free marks), then we have a maximum of 5 marks on company self assessment in Q5.

Partnership did catch me off guard as well but that's entirely our fault for having neglected the topic, it is a part of income tax and the BPP book specifically said that a full question can come so make sure to remember the handful of rules on partnership. Fortunately I only neglected it during revision and had done it during initial study so I was able to remember some of the unique rules correctly.

Oh there is a 25 mark question ENTIRELY on partnership in june 2006 and it is testing alot more of the partnership only rules than the question of this years paper.

Sorry people but those who are claiming to have done the entire revision kits were clearly doing something wrong...

Too much was required in 3 hours...this paper was so different...hoping for 50%.

@gambler747 said:
Oh there is a 25 mark question ENTIRELY on partnership in june 2006 and it is testing alot more of the partnership only rules than the question of this years paper.

Sorry people but those who are claiming to have done the entire revision kits were clearly doing something wrong...

i think there was no such technical area of partnership examined in paper.. we just had to distribute the profits (and we learned this in f3).. and the basis period was not to be calculated.. had the examiner given a question to calculate basis period in partnership, than we would have a tough time! but fortunately he dint!

The paper covered quite a lot areas, attempted all, hope can get pass. The F6 revision lectures help a lot tho.....

@treace

I agree. More areas tested in the paper than any other past paper. And each question made as complex as possible. Everything tested is on the syllabus but they crammed in too much in 3 hours and 15 minutes :( Paper resembled nothing of the kit, I can do most of the kit in my sleep

Hi

What do you mean by adjustment for VAT in trading profits. Trading profits were exclusive of Vat and if I am thinking right there shouldnt be any sdjustements for vat in trading profits.

If we look at this paper the story is very similar. 10 separate marks for VAT and an adjustment of VAT in trading profits so maximum of 15 marks for VAT. We have 10 marks on self assessment in Q4(tax avoidance/evasion and your personal stand on the matter had nothing to do with self assessment and were infact free marks), then we have a maximum of 5 marks on company self assessment in Q5.

awful, it was something else, nothing like it, i dont think i can get over it. the level of preparation was nothing compared to wot i met. wot a day.

Paper was tricky :(

Yes it was tircky

I lost in question no. 1 as it included sales and expenses on...i did shock
as partnership was included in.

the trding loss question was most awful..dividends from foreign shares and capital allowances..all were bad...whatwas to be done wid the purchase of the ventilation system?

I found this exam difficult and extremely unfair, it was as if there had been a new examiner writing the paper!! I actually called ACCA today after coming across many forums, proving that I am not alone! As it was my first exam I thought it may have just been me, having lost the plot or something... I went into the exam feeling quite confident and came out with no confidence. I worked hard and covered the syllabus

ACCA said it is important that anyone who felt that the structure/layout/questions of the paper was unfair it is a good idea to make sure you enter your feedback on the questionnaire they have and to call them, they have asked me to email them (to the normail student email add) putting my concerns in writing! ...and said if more people do this it may help! I will do this as feel it is unfair to have possibly wasted 6months of my time and hundreds of £'s.

I don't think this is a case of finding someone to blame for not doing well, I really believe that the paper was unfair! ...ahh rant over - for now!!

@joannem said:
I found this exam difficult and extremely unfair, it was as if there had been a new examiner writing the paper!! I actually called ACCA today after coming across many forums, proving that I am not alone! As it was my first exam I thought it may have just been me, having lost the plot or something... I went into the exam feeling quite confident and came out with no confidence. I worked hard and covered the syllabus

ACCA said it is important that anyone who felt that the structure/layout/questions of the paper was unfair it is a good idea to make sure you enter your feedback on the questionnaire they have and to call them, they have asked me to email them (to the normail student email add) putting my concerns in writing! ...and said if more people do this it may help! I will do this as feel it is unfair to have possibly wasted 6months of my time and hundreds of £'s.

I don't think this is a case of finding someone to blame for not doing well, I really believe that the paper was unfair! ...ahh rant over - for now!!

I do understand your frustration, but this is your first exam and when you have completed more and gained more experience you will get to know that ACCA do this with the exams all the time. It's not that they are unfair, just that their exams are challenging.

Exam technique is a vital skill and ACCA know students will freak when they see the change of paper (I don't really see it was THAT different). The trick with any exam is deep breath, get rid of the negative thoughts and gradually work your way through the question doing what you can and picking up as many marks as possible.

The reason the pass rate is 50% is exactly why the exams seem tough. They could make them easier but with a much higher pass mark but this vital skill of coping under pressure would be harder to test.

Hard questions - yes, but with a fair pass rate (50%)

What I would say is don't get too down now. Experience also tells me that when I feel I've done really badly on a paper I often have done quite well. (7 exams now avg 69% and no fails) and I thought I'd failed a few.

Just wait till the results come out, you may be surprised. If you have revised hard and covered the sylabus you stand a good chance. Belive me, I never try to guess what i have got as a mark because I have been surprised in the past.

Good Luck

@flower said:
Hi

What do you mean by adjustment for VAT in trading profits. Trading profits were exclusive of Vat and if I am thinking right there shouldnt be any sdjustements for vat in trading profits.

Yes but you still have to include those items with a "0". Basically you had to show that they dont require adjustment and I am sure there will be a couple of marks on showing the 0.

@owensn said:
I do understand your frustration, but this is your first exam and when you have completed more and gained more experience you will get to know that ACCA do this with the exams all the time. It's not that they are unfair, just that their exams are challenging.

Exam technique is a vital skill and ACCA know students will freak when they see the change of paper (I don't really see it was THAT different). The trick with any exam is deep breath, get rid of the negative thoughts and gradually work your way through the question doing what you can and picking up as many marks as possible.

The reason the pass rate is 50% is exactly why the exams seem tough. They could make them easier but with a much higher pass mark but this vital skill of coping under pressure would be harder to test.

Hard questions - yes, but with a fair pass rate (50%)

What I would say is don't get too down now. Experience also tells me that when I feel I've done really badly on a paper I often have done quite well. (7 exams now avg 69% and no fails) and I thought I'd failed a few.

Just wait till the results come out, you may be surprised. If you have revised hard and covered the sylabus you stand a good chance. Belive me, I never try to guess what i have got as a mark because I have been surprised in the past.

Good Luck

Thank you owensn, I do see where you are coming from. I suppose i am just a little disappointed!

I haven't been aiming for great marks as I have struggled with finding time to study (as we all do) but I have worked very hard and covered the syllabus and I was actually quite looking forward to the exam.... with distance learning I feel past exam papers are essential (along with thoroughly going through the text) and for me they are the key to passing as when I start practicing real past papers etc, that is when it really sticks and it just didn't help that the exam papers that we were able to use all seemed to follow a certain pattern (as they have done since the pilot paper in 2007(I think?!)) ...and then to get into the real thing and be faced with something quite different I feel was unfair - esp. to have not been even prompted in the running up to the exam that there may be some change. Also putting that to one side I actually found that the paper had no flow to it (like previous papers have) and I felt it was quite unclear in areas - which in normal circumstances may not be such a problem but with the added pressure and nerves of being in an exam - it just made it more confusing and awkward than it needed to me! ....lets face it, in the real world we have the internet and accounting offices full of accounting 'bibles', no-one is ever expected to have it all stored so I just think making the exam unnecessarily difficult isn't fair - students do well to retain most of the syllabus without being mislead! This is just my opinion, but you are right nothing really can be done about this so will just have to wait and see!

@superwoman said:
Superwoman thinks the following:
Q1 was fair as standard syllabus areas included
Q2 This was a different format than previuos years that may have confused students to start. It is surprising that Company losses were tested again as they were tested in December 2009 Q5. But by breaking up the requirements students could answer the parts they preferred and just have a go at the other parts
Q3 I personally thought students would be pleased that this was corporate gains and not individual capital gains tax. Standard share calculation, Damaged asset, Holdover relief and part disposals.Student comments surprise me.
Q4 As I have always stressed to my students you must learn ADM. If you had not learnt self assessment for individuals then you would find Q4 very difficult. If you had studied this area the question was ok
Q5 AGAIN ADM but for companies. Same comments as above.

Someone made the comment about VAT. There was only 10 marks for VAT no more and the examiner has said a MINIMUM OF 10 marks on VAT will be examined. He could set a 30 mark question if he wanted!
Overall, despite the change in format I thought the exam was a bit tougher than say last year but a well prepared student should have no problem passing the exam.
Just forget the exam and look forward and enjoy the FOOTBALL
(FOR NON FOOTBALL FANS IT IS THE WORLD CUP)

yes, and perhaps the examiner could have put a 50% or 70% or even 100% question on VAT right? I think we have a right to feel aggreived and we cannot shrug this off by the examiner saying, yeah but we told you that VAT will be a minimum of 10% so make sure you dont forget that! OK so past exams VAT is 10 or 15%, and that is how it is for MANY past exams, I feel then that it is not unreasonable for those of us who work full time, study part time for 6 months, pay loads of money, taking a week off work (as I did) and practising all the past exam questions - to simply take a punt that the VAT question would be worth 10-15% no??? I did study VAT, I did study admin, but I spent a majority of my time studying items that were consisitently 30 marks in almost every exam paper and perfecting answers for those - ie Corp. Tax (yes its harder than CGT but it was omnipresent) and individuals. Seriously, the partnership question was a joke - not too hard fundamentally, but unclear vague and the link with the VAT question actually made me laugh out loud during the exam as I couldnt beleive how incredibly unlucky I was to chose June 2010 to do my tax exam - because if I had only done it 6 months earlier I would have easily pass - but on this occaision, I have no idea after the cost and effort that I will actually pass. So whilst you think its all a formality, no - as many people here have said - its not and we wouldnt come on here if we didnt feel that we were being treated unfairly.

I was prepared very well, but the paper was not good

The format for question 1 was very different to previous years. Trading
profits, partnership, VAT(which was an output exclusive amount but with VAT in brackets
was this the actual VAT to be included as the recoverable amount? who knows!
I feel the purpose of question 1 was to confuse. Where was all the income tax the first 100 pages in my text book. benefits in kind etc.
Q2 Maybe I am wrong here but how much of question 2 was actually corporation tax?
All in all. lots of theory change from the norm and definitely designed to
to reduce pass rates. Business rates case in point!

Given half an hour of extra time might make this question fair..so dam lengthy. I finished Q1,2,3,5 & surpizingly there was only 1 mnt left for Q4 :(

Any way we can sue the examiner ?

Any way we can sue the examiner ?

i have just checked the other forums, surprisingly every forum where an exam has been taken, someone thinks the exam was unfair. Always the examiners fault!
Guy's these are HARD exams. Get used to it. If you want an easy ride, I'd quit now.

not "hard" - exam was badly constructed in terms of the skill of constructing an exam - Examiner fancied a change so mixed it all up and make up for it by asking non-tax specific easy questions like tax evasion etc that gave away silly marks....to compensate

But he didn't put in place ways for the marker to see the student intentionally left out red herrings and figures - was that not the point of asking for £0 in adjustment questions??

Result -
bad students get guess marks and can deceive the marker they know the subject

good students didn't get the opportunity to evidence the correct thought processes

i am sure there will be bad feedback from the markers - I looked at my paper and after 3 hours, knowing the subject inside out - there was hardly anything written on it, just not the opportunity to say much to the marker....

papre was toooooooooooooooooooo tough.
this is very unfair to give such paper.

it was damn tuff,, hope it get me through.