General ACCAJune 10 Exams: Paper P1 was …. Post your comments here

rizy u and all ppl write the same thing
bcuz purpose objectives and advantages of internal controls will not change :)
i wrote same as
Int controls .. helps in identifying weakness ,, reduce fraud and error , better and accurate info so therefore good assessment and decisons ....

voluntary are stake holders that choose to affect the organisation. involuntary are those groups who have been affected by the nuclear plant (not their choice).

i said involuntary were , govt of beeland, govt of ceeland and NNN group.
the beeland govt and NNN had legitimate claims (and i explained why). other govt that was 500 km away had v little if any claim...

what did ppl say for role of internal audit in inter control effectiveness?
i said:

help in design of controls
testing controls on regular basis
assessing controls to ensure they are relevant
discussing with mgt any weaknesses and possible solutions
reporting internal control failures to audit committee so they can be focused on

do these sound ok???

Thank you muneebnawaz. i feel much better now.

for invol stakeholders i put the seals as they had no choice but to be in the waters by the plant and the 2 neighbouring countries

@emmanuel_taf said:
Question 4 - last part. I used the AAA framework to help Mr Shreen decide on a course of action. I am worried coz the question said 'discuss' and 'advise'.

Did anyone else answer question 4 ? The AAA model was just perfect for that scenario but im not sure thats what the examiner wanted ?? Help anyone ??

I used AAA model too. Phew, I was worried as it usually asks you to use a specific model. Do you think it was right to use AAA/ Tucker to advise and discuss the ethical issues in question 4d??

I agree thaqt it was a fair paper - no theorists!! However, it was quite time constrained - lots to write and we'll have to wait and see exactly what the examiner wanted!!

OMG I used the arguement that Mr Shreen should consider his Professional code and the principles of Integrity and how he as a professional person had a duty of care to society and public interest! I feel so down. I have been studying for 11 years and this is my very last exam!

@nguyan said:
OMG I used the arguement that Mr Shreen should consider his Professional code and the principles of Integrity and how he as a professional person had a duty of care to society and public interest! I feel so down. I have been studying for 11 years and this is my very last exam!

Thats exactly what i did. I didn't mention any models for decision making. I thought the focus of the question was more on the ethical conflict than the process used to come to a decision.

@muneebnawaz90 said:
1. Pressure Group : Claim - > ensure proper risk assessment and no radioactive leakage as happend before in 1970s to save rear seals
2. Government of Beeland : Claim : clossure and decommisioned of HN
3: Government of Ceeland : Claim : Same

make sure involuntary stakeholders are those involved involuntarily means as Nuclear plant have some negative affect on Govt of Beeland and pressure group . if their is no HN nuclear thing means no pressure group ( NNN )
and voluntary means : employess who choose the org as per choice

hope now voluntary or involantary stakeholders r clear to u fellows

I also had the pressure group down as an involuntary stakeholder but was concerned for the rest of the paper that they were actually voluntary as they made a conscious decision to lobby. So, at the end i switched them to the seals themselves. This left me with the three involuntary as:
Beeland
Ceeland
Wildlife/Seals

@boscobosco said:
Thats exactly what i did. I didn't mention any models for decision making. I thought the focus of the question was more on the ethical conflict than the process used to come to a decision.

Oh well we will both be doing it again in December, unless we are correct and the AAA anwers are not what the examiner had in mind! Fingers crossed!

The text in Q1 was extreemly long ... I was confused a little bit ... but managed to attempt all the questions. In Q4 you should apply standard analysis of a case as it is written in Text Book Chapter 10 Summary. You could add that such stuff like AAA and Tucker`s 5Q could be used alternatively.

What about family owned/managed systems? What did you write?

https://www.accaglobal.com/pubs/students/publications/student_accountant/archive/sa_jan08_campbell.pdf

@sicily said:
The text in Q1 was extreemly long ... I was confused a little bit ... but managed to attempt all the questions. In Q4 you should apply standard analysis of a case as it is written in Text Book Chapter 10 Summary. You could add that such stuff like AAA and Tucker`s 5Q could be used alternatively.

What about family owned/managed systems? What did you write?

I agree! I think using AAA still makes you consider the ethical and prof concepts etc. and you still advise at the end.

Family co's I wrote that there are sometimes minority shareholders who may be treated unfairly, also the family could take higher salries etc as no remuneration committee in place to protect minority. I meant to add that families don't usually involve much corp gov as they run the business so don't have to worry about shareholders interest as they are the shareholders too. but ran out of time :(

muneeb mate...

i am sure all who appeared for P1 exam are pretty clear on who voluntary and involuntary stakeholders....

the issue here is a bit complicated thats why i asked.....

With the pressure group....its upto THEM to be a part of the organisation or BE AFFECTEd......if u know wat i am trying to say. If they decided not to engage in and butt in HN...they didnt had to. was entirely upto them. This is why i say i dont think they were stake holders.

I guess the reason why most of the people mentioned NNN as an involuntary stakeholder is because the question mentioned about their CLAIMS too. Now clearly in the questions BEELAND, CEELAND and NNN were they only were ' CLAIMING' something .... u know wat i mean.

Anyway, the biggest issue here is that because i couldnt find any CLAIMS as such and instead of not writing down any, i wrote NNN too....which i am pretty sure is wrong.

All in all, it sucked!!!!

overall , dont have enough time to finished this paper eventhough have 15 minutes reading time. Question are not straight forward , bit tricky , need to spend time read twice before really write out the answer . Hope to pass this round ... pray hard ..

Hmmm.... totally time restricted the part 2 qus were pretty long winded, they took a bit of reading! (compared to past papers!) not to confident, as some of the qus were a bit wide open, so i wasnt quite sure what he was getting at!!..... heyho tho..... went back to q1 d.... that nuclear co only has half a statement on its website :0)

did anyone attempt Q3 ? )) I think very theoretical and deep knowledges of COSO need to answer.

@nguyan said:
Oh well we will both be doing it again in December, unless we are correct and the AAA anwers are not what the examiner had in mind! Fingers crossed!

Chill out, its only a few marks either way. Not gonna be the deciding factor of whether we passed or failed.

@accaite said:
muneeb mate...

i am sure all who appeared for P1 exam are pretty clear on who voluntary and involuntary stakeholders....

the issue here is a bit complicated thats why i asked.....

With the pressure group....its upto THEM to be a part of the organisation or BE AFFECTEd......if u know wat i am trying to say. If they decided not to engage in and butt in HN...they didnt had to. was entirely upto them. This is why i say i dont think they were stake holders.

I guess the reason why most of the people mentioned NNN as an involuntary stakeholder is because the question mentioned about their CLAIMS too. Now clearly in the questions BEELAND, CEELAND and NNN were they only were ' CLAIMING' something .... u know wat i mean.

Anyway, the biggest issue here is that because i couldnt find any CLAIMS as such and instead of not writing down any, i wrote NNN too....which i am pretty sure is wrong.

All in all, it sucked!!!!

Surely the government, employees, trade unions, customers, etc all had claims? Although they were voluntary. NNN was voluntary too, i think. Hoping that the three involuntary were: Beeland/Ceeland/seals

Q1 involuntary stakholders were the two goverments of bee & cee and the third one was the indirect stakeholder, NNN. They represented & were the voice of the seals aswell as the general enviroment.

please correct me if im wrong.

@rizyy said:
Q1 involuntary stakholders were the two goverments of bee & cee and the third one was the indirect stakeholder, NNN. They represented & were the voice of the seals aswell as the general enviroment.

please correct me if im wrong.

I struggled with the seal/pressure group problem for the whole exam. I eventually said that the seals were involuntary stakeholders. i think i am correct as pressure groups in the book are classified as voluntary. Not entirely sure.

It felt like the examiner was not asking anything specific at all but obviously he must have been!! very strange paper would much have preferred if he said something like "use x to analyse this" etc. as it stands im not confident at all because i didnt use the things i had learned and it was all general knowledge.

Also to involuntary stakes I add 'the sea' because their transfer nuclear materials to foreign country by sea ))

Please, find below the certain definitions of voluntary and involuntary stakeholders (from BPP text book 2010, page 17):

Voluntary: those who engage with the organization voluntary - management, employees, customers, suppliers. shareholders and pressure groups.
Involuntary: those who become stakeholders involuntarily - regulators, government, local communities, neghbours, the natural world, future generations.

These are the definitions from the text book. I mentioned 3 stakeholders in the exam: Beeland, Ceeland and NNN organization.

@mrdragon said:
Please, find below the certain definitions of voluntary and involuntary stakeholders (from BPP text book 2010, page 17):

Voluntary: those who engage with the organization voluntary - management, employees, customers, suppliers. shareholders and pressure groups.
Involuntary: those who become stakeholders involuntarily - regulators, government, local communities, neghbours, the natural world, future generations.

These are the definitions from the text book. I mentioned 3 stakeholders in the exam: Beeland, Ceeland and NNN organization.

Thanks for posting that.

So were you wrong with NNN?

@boscobosco said:
Thanks for posting that.
So were you wrong with NNN?

I'm not sure. It depends on the situation. There could no be certaion allocation. For example, the government is usually involuntary stakeholder, however in our exam government was a shareholder of the nuclear company, so it was voluntary stakeholder :)
Regarding the NNN i considered it as not a pressure group, but as a local community.
PS. As for seals, they did not have claims. So it was not possible to assess their claims. I did not find any other solutions for claims assessment except for B-land, C-land and NNN

NNN was a voluntary stakeholder because it chooses to oppose the plant, so was the government because it chose to build it. As to seals, they have a claim to clean water and habitat, this claim was voiced by NNN, but it is the seals who are the stakeholders. Involuntary stakeholders also included foreign neighbours concerned with emissions and taxpayers of Ayland who had no choice but to foot the bill for the plant.

@emmanuel_taf said:
Which question was that again lol !? - i am so stressed from that exam i cant remember a thing !

it is q4 (c),right? i used the AAA model, as i was short of time, use point form.

@emmanuel_taf said:
Question 4 - last part. I used the AAA framework to help Mr Shreen decide on a course of action. I am worried coz the question said 'discuss' and 'advise'.

Did anyone else answer question 4 ? The AAA model was just perfect for that scenario but im not sure thats what the examiner wanted ?? Help anyone ??

i used AAA too. as I short of time, so I just done the 7 questions then that is time's up. i think the question is want us to make a decision for Mr.Shereen

@gimvie said:
I think my paper went really well, but I am so gutted about the time management. I didn't answer properly Part D of Question 1, although I had good points for that question. I think that Section A was not difficult at all. The answers of Part A & Part B were in the scenario. As far as Part C is concerned, can anybody tell me that what who was the agent of the nuclear plant? Was it that trade union company. Anyways, I wrote all the duties, objectives of agents. I think I should get atleast half marks in that part. In Section B, I attempted Q.2 and Q.3, and those two questions took alot of my time. I think I answered them fairly well, especially Q.3, which was about Internal Control. Internal Audit & Principles-Based approach. I am optimistic about my chances of passing this paper, but you never know what happens. In F9, I left about 20 marks and I was expecting 35% maximum, and I was really shocked to see that I got 56% in that. Really shocked....You just never know with these papers. Anything can happen. Even if you think you haven't done well, you may still pass. Good Luck everybody!!!

I thought the agent is the board, and the principle is the Government of Ayland?