APM*** P5 December 2011 Exam was: Post your comments and vote in Instant Poll ***

hello frndz...
Any 1 can tell me about Q1 part a...??
What do we have to analyse? Means which type of risks.???
Risks about type1,2,3 report.?? Or about general matters like government related issues, prices, demand..?? Please rply....

@sunnykumar said:
hello frndz...
Any 1 can tell me about Q1 part a...??
What do we have to analyse? Means which type of risks.???
Risks about type1,2,3 report.?? Or about general matters like government related issues, prices, demand..?? Please rply....

As I recall.

Commodity risk(contract not yet signed & secured)
Government risk(change of government at short notice, due to economy[as is happening in lots of countries today])
Politics(Govt spends money of job growth not defence, due to political pressure)
Economy Risk(cant remember how I elaborated)

I think I had something more, or said the above differently, but it was along those lines.

On Q1, did we havd to calculate Breakeven points of each project??? I can't remember, please help.

Also, can someone from Admin give us the correct solution, please? I can't sleep at night due to this exam!!

@darthvader001 said:
On Q1, did we havd to calculate Breakeven points of each project??? I can't remember, please help.

Also, can someone from Admin give us the correct solution, please? I can't sleep at night due to this exam!!

I don't remember a requirement for breakeven point. But then, I don't remember a capped price of 70,000 per unit either.

I don't think the answers will be available for some time dude, ACCA don't release the question paper straight away.

I feel a bit happier now to see I am not the only one who thought the paper was horrible.
I was sure EVA would come up even for a few marks as Mr Examiner seemed to be particularly fond of it and of course there were 2 articles published in the last few months on it but not even a 4 mark part of a question (unless I really missed something)!!
If only I knew on Wednesday what I know now I would have spent the day doing risk and uncertainty instead of EVA!!
Q1 really threw me and I think if I had of left it until last I might have had a better chance of passing. But under pressure in the exam I just kept reading it and trying to make sense of it. I threw down some waffle about ev, maximax etc and spent way to long on it!! Hopefully will get some marks for effort at least!!
Ah well onto P2 study now hopefully can scrape a 50 in that!!! I feel like I will never be finished with these last two exams!!

On Q1, there was wriggle room on the VC, full cost was capped at $70k per unit.

if you chose NPV development design cost would have been eliminted as sunk cost no? So NPV wouldnt be good for the APV

Therfore to calculate EV, Min Max therory, talk about the risks in economy, steel prices, all that stuff and get the professional marks you should be ok.

It seems to me that regarding calcs, the actual results may not matter as much as people think. The question was styled more to understand and explain the methods and metrics and how the risks would potentially influence the decision. Plus in the question it said it was difficult to get the probabilities in the first place, so there are question marks over the vaildity to place decision firmly on EV only.

The professional marks were great, 4% is a gimmee in a situation like this. First 9 marks were attainable too. Totally appreciated the 19 marker stumped people but relax, if you included analysis in your report of whatever you calc'd, providing you explain EV and followed the methodology you will get half the marks at least.

I did this for the third time and all i can say is fck tips. This time I read every stinking inch of the course, the pyramid was a shock but if you revised it, wasnt too bad.

The Q5 on costing, Kaizen, JIT and TQM. Once the corrector can tick the key words in your answer you'll get marks.

It was a horrendous paper if you went on tips or previous form. I've been there. Twice. Hope to Jaysus this is the last I ever see of an ACCA paper.

@leighstallard said:
I don't remember a requirement for breakeven point. But then, I don't remember a capped price of 70,000 per unit either.

I don't think the answers will be available for some time dude, ACCA don't release the question paper straight away.

The cap of 70,000$ was there, forr sure. I did not use it, however, as it was stated that price is calculated on full cost * 19%. Damn...

Regarding the ACCA solutions, usually there are on the site before releasing the results..

@ Admin:

Can Opentuition help us identifying the correct answer for Q1?

Well, yesterday's setting was my fourth attempt, wait guys dont judge me and say this guy is stupid , because i am not . actually i cleared 13 papers in 4 settings so i guess i m smarter than Mr. Alex watt, anyways , i studies like a sicko i solved the KAPLAN 64 questions and 5 questions of the pilot paper three times , plus all the kaplan questions suggested for the exam setting for June and December, i studies three separate study notes offered by London business school and opentuition itself and solved their questions as well finally i lost around 3000 USD to attend this exam including my forgone salary + exam fees + fees for special center ( being the only person in my country who attended the exam). having said that , this is how i feel about yesterday's exam:

Q1: question from Hell, i mean 19 marks for one part , hello examiner where do you come from, what are you , and on what on uncertainy and risk analysis . actually we have to analyze the risk of having a crazy examiner in a reputable professional body like ACCA. and i was really not only uncertain but sure that the examiner knows nothing about P5. i well get 0 out of 19 marks at this part and maybe 5 marks on the other 2 parts being hopefully 5/35.

Q2: Performance Pyramid, i was sure that this question will pop up, not because i am smart because after 4 attempts i became an expert in this paper , maybe someday they will hire me a marker.. it was a nice question however it was lengthy one. i may get 21/25.

Q4: part a) was about the information this was good, part b was about management style, performance style and rewards, this was ok as well but the requirements were unclear hope to get 13 out of 20.

Q5: was ok as well but the scenario was rubbish and did not make sense to me, qulaity costs, Kaizen and JIT. i may get 14 out of 20 . totally as per my calculations i may get around 53 but you know what my only concern is whether the markers of the exam come from the same planet from which Mr. examiner comes from then we may get like 40 or 25 in this exam let us see, best of luck to every body.

Q 1 (b) 19 marks Gone.
part (c) How to recommend with no supporting calculation (4 marks gone)

4 Professional marks gone with no report to write..

19+4+4 = 27 marks in total... :(

@darthvader001 said:
The cap of 70,000$ was there, forr sure. I did not use it, however, as it was stated that price is calculated on full cost * 19%. Damn...

Regarding the ACCA solutions, usually there are on the site before releasing the results..

Yeah I had the same approach, read that they'd agreed cost + 19% and went with that. Totally missed the part about 70k.

@leighstallard said:
Yeah I had the same approach, read that they'd agreed cost + 19% and went with that. Totally missed the part about 70k.

A post earlier mentioned this method:
my method was to work out selling price (fixed on all three types) at 19% mark up on variable costs. this would then give you contribution.

then there was the 7.5m grant from the government, which i used to reduce the fixed costs for each design, immediately i could calculate break even point on each design.

then added the contribution multiplied by each quantity ordered to (FC less grant) to give me an absolute ‘profit’ from each outcome.

with this you can calculate maximin, maximax, in both cases design 1 as VC were fixed.

finally i applied probability to my ‘profit’ numbers to work out EV of each design, this suggested design 2, from 1, and finally 3.

I recommended Maximin as the most acceptable as Mackerel seemed to be risk averse (they fixed price of steel in question) meaning my suggested design was type 1.

Which one is correct?

If any one had watched the O.T lectures, he / she would never have said the question 1 was hard.... because It was almost same as example given in the lectures of Risk and Uncertainty....

@amadani said:
Well, yesterday's setting was my fourth attempt, wait guys dont judge me and say this guy is stupid , because i am not . actually i cleared 13 papers in 4 settings so i guess i m smarter than Mr. Alex watt, anyways , i studies like a sicko i solved the KAPLAN 64 questions and 5 questions of the pilot paper three times , plus all the kaplan questions suggested for the exam setting for June and December, i studies three separate study notes offered by London business school and opentuition itself and solved their questions as well finally i lost around 3000 USD to attend this exam including my forgone salary + exam fees + fees for special center ( being the only person in my country who attended the exam). having said that , this is how i feel about yesterday's exam:

Q1: question from Hell, i mean 19 marks for one part , hello examiner where do you come from, what are you , and on what on uncertainy and risk analysis . actually we have to analyze the risk of having a crazy examiner in a reputable professional body like ACCA. and i was really not only uncertain but sure that the examiner knows nothing about P5. i well get 0 out of 19 marks at this part and maybe 5 marks on the other 2 parts being hopefully 5/35.

Q2: Performance Pyramid, i was sure that this question will pop up, not because i am smart because after 4 attempts i became an expert in this paper , maybe someday they will hire me a marker.. it was a nice question however it was lengthy one. i may get 21/25.

Q4: part a) was about the information this was good, part b was about management style, performance style and rewards, this was ok as well but the requirements were unclear hope to get 13 out of 20.

Q5: was ok as well but the scenario was rubbish and did not make sense to me, qulaity costs, Kaizen and JIT. i may get 14 out of 20 . totally as per my calculations i may get around 53 but you know what my only concern is whether the markers of the exam come from the same planet from which Mr. examiner comes from then we may get like 40 or 25 in this exam let us see, best of luck to every body.

Actually 19 marks were enuff for this question as there were too many calculations to be done... First Expected Values then MaxiMin, Maximax and then Minimax regret and it took a lot of time.. and Alex Watt is not a stupid examiner actually you are being over smart and over confident on your past results... And if you really think you have become an expert in this paper.. so you must pass it this time atleast... and if in case (GOD FORBIDS) you dont pass it.. I would recommend you to listen and watch Open Tuition's and LSBF's Lectures again and again (If you have not so) .. Trust me you will feel the difference!

Sick of Acca setting terrible exams. F9 was the same I want to be an accountant not a management consultant. Worst Exam ever clear case of the Examiner trying to show off to show how bright he is. Bet he is a barrel of laughs on a night out.

Hi All,

I totally agree that the exam was tough. The examinar did mention that this paper will focus mostly on the discursive elements with minimum focus on calculations.
Thr 19 mark question (1b) was an absolute shocker for me and hence, messed up the rest of the question.

However, I request you all to send your exam feedback to the ACCA on your view of the exam (on the ACCA website) and hope for the best.

All the best everyone.

Mush

i have firm belief and trust in ALLAH.
He never disappoint us and always reward those who work hard.
so pray and focus on next exam..all the friends who worked hard will pass. (ALLAH willings).
Alex watt does not have any power.
ALLAH is greatest of all........................... have faith

Hi all

All these comments posted here must be sent to ACCA by open tuition. This examinor should be removed. Meaning all the students in the world say the same thing. he must think that what student can do within three hours time after reading the horible scenarios. The exam idea must be test the average knowledge of the student about the subject matter. because within three hours time no one can come to know the exact knowlwdge about the student. Some times back F9 exam s also looks similar manner. Look at the P2 examinor any one who did that exam paper. he is really good examinor . Examinor should not try to show the entire world that they are smart. of coz they are smart than us. but we are students. We are limited than him. Acca should do something fare for the 2011 p5 diet.Please open tuition these terrible comments about the examinor must pass to ACCA.thanks

Guys, let's conclude: in the end, at Q1, how the payoff table should have been calculated?
For eg, where D=500
(FC+(500*VC)*19% (it was stated that the 19% is applied at full cost) or
500* [Max sell price (70,000)- VC]=contribution-(FC-7,500,000 subsidy from government)?

Hello everyone!
Can any one correct me about Q-1 (b)?

I did like.........

Risk attitudes Risk Averse,Risk Neutral and Risk Taker and Exogenous factors. (Marks 09)

Then

I discussed Methods to incorporate risk and uncertainty like

1-Scenario Planning
2-Simulation
3-Expected Value
4-Maximin Minimax and Minimax
5-Sensitivity Analysis
(As discussed in Kaplan Book)

Then discussed suitability of "Maximin and Expected Value" then calculated Expected Values (left in mid due to time constraints.....!) (Marks 19)

In last part discussed expected value is more suitable. (Marks 03)

Properly in Report format Introduction,Conclusion

I agree with the majority, it was a horrible and unfair exam! Comments should be made to ACCA via the Dec 2011 Exam Feedback process. Here's the link....

https://www.accaglobal.com/en/student/exam-feedback0.html

@saggart said:
Im pretty sure the government were subsidising 19% on the vc and not total cost + 7.5m for R&D. I calculated the Sale Price based on (FC+(500*VC) and added the mark up of 19%. For the calc of the profit i just subtracted SP-(TC-Gov grants) and for expected values i multiplied the profit figures by the probabilities for each of the three types & demands. Came out with Type 2 which offered the highest return to the company.

I dont see how the minimax regret could have been done under that time as well! just managed to do maximax & maximin

Overall i thought the paper was challenging. First time sitting it and it was tricky enough. It was nice to see the performance pyramid for Q2 as i banked on that coming up. Also Q3 & Q5 was pretty straight forward in terms of rewards & traditional budgeting techniques for q3 and quality control management for Q5. Obviously Q1 b was a stinger and im sure ACCA will compensate this when they are marking. Hopefully ill get this one exam out of the way and no more exams for a long long time! Good luck to everyone.

How do you think ACCA will compensate for Q1????? It wasted a lot of valuable time from the others. Do you think they will say: OK, let's start marking from +5 marks everyone??

@saggart said:
Im pretty sure the government were subsidising 19% on the vc and not total cost + 7.5m for R&D. I calculated the Sale Price based on (FC+(500*VC) and added the mark up of 19%. For the calc of the profit i just subtracted SP-(TC-Gov grants) and for expected values i multiplied the profit figures by the probabilities for each of the three types & demands. Came out with Type 2 which offered the highest return to the company.

I dont see how the minimax regret could have been done under that time as well! just managed to do maximax & maximin

Overall i thought the paper was challenging. First time sitting it and it was tricky enough. It was nice to see the performance pyramid for Q2 as i banked on that coming up. Also Q3 & Q5 was pretty straight forward in terms of rewards & traditional budgeting techniques for q3 and quality control management for Q5. Obviously Q1 b was a stinger and im sure ACCA will compensate this when they are marking. Hopefully ill get this one exam out of the way and no more exams for a long long time! Good luck to everyone.

Well, thank you and congrats!
Finally, I think someone identified the right answer:

If demand=500, then:
Sale price=500*70k
VC=500*36k
Contibution=X
For Type 1, then X-7,500k, For Type 2, X-8,500K, Type 3=X-10,500K

Same for D=500, and D=1000.

Great! Now I know I failed :)

but i thought the price limit is 70k

it is not said that the selling price will be 70k

and the company always mark up total cost by 19% to derive at selling price

anyway I messed up at the government grant part....

I didn't do anything bout it

I thought price limit was 70 too, thought when read it all price limit was a bit of a red herring as the 19% only on vc as govt contributed 7.5 mil to fc anyway. Unfair to pay fc and then in margin too. Who knows what the right answer is, be good to see exam paper online soon so can clarify.

I never said the SP was 70k, darthvader misread my post, even if the SP was 70k its only one error, i priced it at tc + 19% mark up. The marks are awarded for knowing that you use ev, maximax & maximin for risk and uncertainity

@saggart said:
I never said the SP was 70k, darthvader misread my post, even if the SP was 70k its only one error, i priced it at tc + 19% mark up. The marks are awarded for knowing that you use ev, maximax & maximin for risk and uncertainity

Then for the first time, I am glad to be wrong, as I also calculated the profit by applying 19% to TC. However, I did not take into account the subsidy of 7.5 million.. It looks strange to pay the FC and the price..

ACCALOVER, when do you think the Answers will be published?

I dont understand what you mean by "it looks strange to pay the FC and the price" what are you talking about?

If the Co sells the products to the Gov, at 70,000 for eg, and on top of that get's reimbursed 7.5 million, it looks odd, no? I don't remember the exact phrasing, but I think it was stated that the Gov "could pay a subsidy for R&D". However, as the costs are known (FC and VC), that means that the design is finished, therefore 7.5 is a sunk cost, does not relate to the profitability of the project!

I think you just want me to agree with your answer!!! so yeah you're right