APM*** P5 December 2011 Exam was: Post your comments and vote in Instant Poll ***

tzxsean

thanks......

I think it wasn't as easy as it looked.
First, it looked to me that it gladly didn't contain too many calculations in Q2 and especially only in Q4 of the 20pt ones.
However I believe the difficulty lies in the detail:

The first question with the 19pts part b can hurt you and I am not sure how I performed there. EV slipped my mind as a general technique. Seeing P4 and other from the syllabus I am not sure if these are actually to make correctly in the given time.

Q2 I considered good, but the performance pyramid slipped in the lower sections of my mind. I wrote what I knew but am not sure what percentage to expect.

Q3 I chose next as many terms dropped my mind concerning Information Systems and non profit organisations. I don't recall everything I wrote but besides security a main issue here I think is the discurse on if it's not to costly. Not sure if this counts, however I identified it and wrote it down.

Q5 was good to make as the Japanese production and cost methods are stuff from the study times. However another side issue was somehow the employee management and prospective behaviour.

In general I think it was hard as for each idea you have there's a concept and to keep concise is quite a challenge when you have much stuff to write.
I applied the 1.5 rule and for Q1 and Q2 I was able to keep in time, however later I believe I couldn't drop deep enough into the questions, namely Q3 and Q5.

I like the overall paper anyhow and think it's really informative and interesting as it stresses very many different aspects of organisations and employees. So if I need to repeat I wouldn't be too concerned.

But from now on I can only hope, as I guess as we cannot change a thing about it anymore...

@tzxsean said:
@smidsy

do u think ACCA will do that? P level papers for optional

the pass rates swings around 30% LOL

Iv never heard of it before to be honest, but the fact that it was mentioned in the quote peaked my curiosity, hense my question.

I would actually be annoyed if they do that, as I would prefer they wear their embarresment if only 10% pass. Because it is evidence that they did a bad job in the paper setting. Or 90% of the people are not worthy of ACCA, even though they passed all other 13/14 exams ?

It is curious from the June '11 P5 examiners report, he blamed the pass rate on the students and the lecturers. Thats 2 thirds of the equation, with him being the final third, but oh no, he's completely blame free(reminds me of Kim Smith on the old 3.1). LOL, funny old business this ACCA.

Anyway, I digress.

@jimbo21 said:

Q3, the one about the school, well I had a go...some of it was very audit based, for the last part i wrote about Enterprise Resource Management System

I thought it was very audit based too. threw me off a bit and started doubting my answer.

Q1 was ok, EV, maximax, maximin etc. got the numbers wrong but hopefully writing got me marks.

Q2 - did not learn the pyramid so lost a lot of marks there.

resit in June. booo

@smidsy

hmm... well..at least my lecturer nvr teach on management information

so I can never attempt q3

In question 5 did people say about costs of conformance?!

I felt very time pressured too- i normally gave time to check, this was a killer!

In QU 1 i kept reading it but i am sure it said somewhere that the 19% mark up was only on VC? Or was i going mad?

There was nothing i couldn't have a go at answering but i did feel the questions were ambiguous and sometimes i duplicated points in more than one section especially Qu 2 B and C!

Well done everyone on it, least its one exam down and able to focus on next exam or celebration time :)

Q5 on employee issues: I wrote because they are coming out of a communist state, old management techniques will still exist which is autocratic and top-down.
Kaizen is the opposite encouraging employee empowerment to aid with continuous improvement as they are the ones that see the day to day weaknesses in current processes.

Dunno if we should be going along those lines but fingers crossed.

I shouldnt read these things- i keep freaking myself out!! In Qu3 on management information i didnt have masses of knowledge but just tried to use common sense to apply. Wish id mentioned more about the needs of the reviewer of the information!!! arrrrrggghhhh!!! :)

@channel07

i just write out all 4

Prevention costs
Appraisal costs
Internal failure costs
external failure costs

Good - Me too!

@tzxsean said:
@channel07

i just write out all 4

Prevention costs
Appraisal costs
Internal failure costs
external failure costs

open tutions, i was heavily relying on your lectures and notes. but after the paper, i think i shouldnt have done that
the lectures are very easy and clear but there are very few topics covered in those lectures. i think more lectures should be added especially covering all the main models etc...
that would be great

:(

19 Percent markup was on VC only thus making it easy to deduct fix cost gap on different types. However if you took total costs it's the same result.
More an answer design killer
four typs of quality costs as mentioned one earlier, however conformance and non-conformance costs relate to traditional quality approach, where there's a trade off between the two. Not applicable for the japanese quality approach, where no error is only acceptable.

Don't ask me how I called maximinimux... I could kill myself as my first go was right... Hate these correction rollers... Make you think the wrong direction. Panic I guess

Well i started with q.2 have good knwledge of pyramid so that went well than went to question 4 budget constraint system was used discussed it than other part as well this was also fairly done than moved to question 1 :@ did part one abut risk and second part calculated maximax maximin but dun knw made right calculation or not :P so this part was not done well hoping to get 10 marks from 35 in question 1 :( than did q5 discued quality cost kazian costing jit ec let c wht comes up on 20 feb i want 50 :P

i mentioned minimax regret, maximin and maximax in q1. but i talked in detail about EV and probabilities...
did some stupid non sense calculation that gave me per unit cost over $70000 for all three types of production designs...
but type 2 seemed least unfavourable....

i discussed a bit of target costing in q1.... and gave non sense about reducing costs per unit to bring the cost per unit down to 70000


does it make sense????

Q1 part b is going to be my night mare :(....
I had 20 minutes remaining but i couldnt guess what the Q was about
Hoping for the best... And good luck every body for results...!!

hmm… well..at least my lecturer nvr teach on management information

so I can never attempt q3

@tzxsean

I dont follow ?

Is that a question or a statement ?

I didnt do Q3 either, but for me its because it was divided into 2, and its easier to get the marks on a Q divided into 3 or 4, if you have a general understanding.

I assume thats what you meant ??

Q5 on employee issues: I wrote because they are coming out of a communist state, old management techniques will still exist which is autocratic and top-down.
Kaizen is the opposite encouraging employee empowerment to aid with continuous improvement as they are the ones that see the day to day weaknesses in current processes.

@ahoatran

I think thats an excellent answer, and I only wished I had the ability under exam pressure to come up with that kind of thinking. They say there's a pass, and a deserved pass. If I was a marker I would be thinking this guy deserves the pass.

Although, its curious in its similarities, Q4 had exactly these qualities(Q4 scenario very similar to a company I managed before, although not ex-communist in any way) Did you use these in applying your answer to Q4 ?

Oh God.. When dy sd risk n uncertainity in q1 i thght immedialty of FM n wnt on to say abt Npv irr eva bt did include ev i cdnt fcrse calculate mch.. Am i wrng to nt calculate minimax maximax maximin?? I js wnt 50 i rly dnt wna repeat.. GBU all to pass including me.. I cn nly pray now.. Why does it hv to b so hrd.. I mean v knw d whle sylabus bt its js sooo hrd?? N d pyramid?? Hu wud hv thght?? Wsnt rdy 4 dt.. Prt b ws k i gues.. Prt a sckd big tym.. I thnk its safe to say its d hardest paper iv eva seen.. Wel fcrse nxt cms p2 afta dt ppr lets c wthr i cn stnd by ds statement

Dear colleagues, today was my 7th attempt to P5. To be honest, at each time I obtained 43-46 marks. After today's exam I have drank 2 bottles of beer and now I'm considerrig an suicide. I studied hard all available information to be prepeared and, pls. trust me, I'm ready to sit this exam at any time because I know that there is nothing left to learn in this f...ng syllabus. Above there are lots of comments regarding Q1 19-mark question. I really respect peaople who complete this question as well as remaining. But - I don't understand our examinator (Alex Watt) - does he really believe that candidates were able to attempt all these questions and expect for pass?! When I opened my question book and read questions I understood EV requirements and aftered 1-2 minutes thinking I decided to start from Q2.Then I started to complete Q1 but after checking time on my clock I understood that if I continue 19-mark question in Q1 - I'll lose time to attempt emaining 2 questions, so I put it off. Now I had very bad fealing that I'll not pass this exam. I think that our examinator was born on Mars and because mrsian-born guys really don't understand how to complete all these questions in 3 hours. GOOD BLESS US! PS By the way - in my opinion previous exam in comparision to last one was easy-beasy-for-babies.

@sheren123 said:
Oh God.. When dy sd risk n uncertainity in q1 i thght immedialty of FM n wnt on to say abt Npv irr eva bt did include ev i cdnt fcrse calculate mch.. Am i wrng to nt calculate minimax maximax maximin?? I js wnt 50 i rly dnt wna repeat.. GBU all to pass including me.. I cn nly pray now.. Why does it hv to b so hrd.. I mean v knw d whle sylabus bt its js sooo hrd?? N d pyramid?? Hu wud hv thght?? Wsnt rdy 4 dt.. Prt b ws k i gues.. Prt a sckd big tym.. I thnk its safe to say its d hardest paper iv eva seen.. Wel fcrse nxt cms p2 afta dt ppr lets c wthr i cn stnd by ds statement

You have a full keyboard in front of you.

Its got all the letters, if you use them, we can understand, if you dont, we cant.

txt spk is gud for txts nt for cmnts.(sorry, but it hurts my head to read your reply, and my head is tired after my P5 exam)

@smidsy

well I mean that when Alex Watt blame candidates or lecturer for not preparing the students or themselves well in certain syallbus

I cannot argue against that

as example of today's paper

q3- management information came out

my lecturer nvr teach in class

nor I took initiative to learn it

so I did not attempt q3

but sometimes situation is not that favorable when both questions are equally same (unknown)

when u try to attempt, the marker can know how well you've covered the syllabus

@shenren123

i think you just need to speed up ur reading speed
and thought processing time

you will be fine you're really covered all syllabus of P5

@andriy said:
Dear colleagues, today was my 7th attempt to P5. To be honest, at each time I obtained 43-46 marks. After today's exam I have drank 2 bottles of beer and now I'm considerrig an suicide. I studied hard

Indeed a beer(or wine) is the best way to chill after an exam.

But perhaps rather than suicide you should consider......

1. Picking a different lecturer, college, or if not available in your location, distance learning(LSBF is good). If you've done it that many times, im sure your great at the content, just not the application under pressure - so revision courses doing exam questions would help a lot.
2. Picking a different option paper
3. Choosing to quit & be a part-qualified accountant(iv had a good career so far as a PQ)
4. Switch to CPA, or CIMA, iv heard they are easier, and may give you exemptions with your ACCA papers

They say after 3 fails, you really have to look hard, and make a strong decision. I think they refer to my options above, rather than your one limited & very final option.
Change the strategy, not the Assets ! Its cheaper !

Hi guys,

Few questions:
- when we can check the official responses on the ACCA site?
- to Andriy: I am at the 6th attempt, last exam for two years, also contemplating suicide. So pls save me by answering:

On Q1 I have calculated the payoff table and Expected Values, but I have made a n error in calculation: I have multiplied the steel cost * 500 units (for eg, for Type 1), but I forgot to do the same with the rest of variable costs (exam pressure, don't ask why). My logic is correct, however numbers will not. I made the mistake by working in Thousands : after multiplying 500units*9.4 tones steel/unit* 1214$ => one number + rest of variable cost =Total cost.
Question: how much do you thing I will be penalized for that?

Q2: Perf pyramid: hom much was the part with the application? 12?
The correct answer appear to me when I arrived home: we should have mentioned the KPI's are measured "in trenches", at department level and identified current measures and suggest other where the case. Unfortunatelly, I did not started bottom-up, but top dow (the objectives are top down), therefore I did not fully cover Delivery, Cycle time ; flexibility;
Q: what was your plan in answering Q2? How many marks was Q2 in total and split?

Thanks!

@smidsy said:
You have a full keyboard in front of you.

Its got all the letters, if you use them, we can understand, if you dont, we cant.

txt spk is gud for txts nt for cmnts.(sorry, but it hurts my head to read your reply, and my head is tired after my P5 exam)

+1, lol

Although I managed my time for the paper and was able to complete all questions, Qu 1 really threw me a curve ball, i managed to talk about mimimax etc but I dont think the calculation was correct and I did not do as a report.....aagggh. Hoping for 50% still.

@darthvader001

for performance pyramid

i din explain the exact thing appear on the diagram

as it supposed to be different for each company

i just said that the KPI must measure the CSF and CSF support the vision

Obviously, the 19 mark q'n was the make or break section. I got type II under risk neutral (expected value), type II under risk averse (minimax regret) and type II under risk-seeking (maximax); the calculations was an appendix with an e.g. being -
Demand 500 = fixed revenue of 7.5m + 19% of the variable cost p.u.*500 - 7.5mill R&D for type I, 7.5m + 19% of v.c.p.u.*500 - 8.75mill for type II, 7.5m+19% of v.c.p.u. - 10mill r&d, Demand 750 = 7.5mill + 19% of v.c.p.u.*500 - 7.5mill r&d for type I, *critically* 7.5mill + 19% of v.c.p.u.*750 - 8.75mill etc etc.
I was lucky enough to see this straight off so think i got over the line on this one.
The rest of q1 - report format, 4 marks, 3 marks after the 19 for discussing what to do based on the 19marker and 7 marks for risks facing hte co., i used PEST (and added financial risk given the PLC status and 20million variable earnings, shareholder complaints etc)

Q2 - washing machine parts company or some other equally sexy industry! Something like the explain the performance pyramid in general and how it would fit in with this company's new swish mission statement. Another section on reviewing their dismal current PMS. Then, lastly, apply the performance pyramid to the co.'s info'n which is not on the board reports, under the headings of the pyramid (flexibility internally and externally, client satisfaction and productivity) as well as suggesting additional KPIs for 12 marks. T'was OK i thought.

Q3 School! i always hated school! lol First part, not so keen, IT related, common sense kinda stuff. Any earlier post mentioned audit kind stuff, and, yes, i mentioned seperation of duty and logical access hierarchy. Felt like i bluffed this sub-part, which was a considerable 9 marks. Next up was recommendations to the appendix (which is 13 pages long) - i used the A.C.C.U.R.A.T.E. mnemonic and how it should be in softcopy quarterly with drill down details per student. The benefits of a new system, benchmarking, efficiencies, redundancies, better service, more KPI to reflect the mission statement. Yadda.

Q4, book shop, budgeting-constrained (Hopwood) culture, uncontrollable variances, broke down to controllable KPI to empower managers, e.g. was marketing to sales %, staff costs to sales % as these are directly controllable. Difference between controllable and traceable. Brought in F&M building block re measurements and standards etc. Honestly can't remember more than that.

This was my 2nd time sitting this, i passed all the other papers first time with no probs and all over 60% but i came a cropper last summer, i was stunned, having come ouf 100% confident so this time around i had to concentrate a lot harder on delivering marks in a kind of expressionless way, too much waffling last time. Given how cocky i was last time i still wouldnt be sure of passing this time - guess we'll see late Feb.
Best of luck everybody :)

I thought it was a pretty straightforward paper.

Q1, wrote to risk aversion and shareholders being concerned with earnings volatility. Mentioned the steel price risk which had been mitigated and the remaining risk remaining as the government demand risk.

Did Appendix with both Maximax Maximin and Minimum Regret as well as EV calculations.

Discussed matching the Maxi... decision with risk tolerance and EV being based on rational model.

Q2, Pyramid wrote to communicating values from top down and critical success factors from bottom up. Current KPI were crap - issues or short term focus, question of investment in assets, manipulation of accounting numbers. Used operational information to put to together a suggested report including notes as to what was being measured/indicated and where additional informational could be needed. Tied it into mission statement when applicable.

Q3 - Current system security issues esp USB usage, need for user verification (head of department and administrator both entered data) and time limited passwords, lack of back-ups. Reports no structure across departments, information difficult to interpret (no percentage changes etc.) need to have more than one year. Lack of relation to other parts of mission statement namely confidence and citizenship. Suggested student/parent and alumni surveys. Increased risk of security problems under new network with connection to the Internet.

Q4 - Adjusted budget to 12% contraction in market. Focus on performance assessment requirements for clarity and controllability. As well as need to link KPIs with overall value enhancement and motivation of management.

I did it in reverse as well but had about 55 mins for Q1 which was sufficient to write report and do calculations in appendix.

Soz, type III under maximax