True – Kd is the return to investors which is pre-tax. The cost to the company is Kd(1-T) if it is irredeemable debt. However if (as is more likely in the exam) it is redeemable debt then it does not equal Kd(1-T) – we need to calculate the IRR of the after-tax flows (whereas Kd is the IRR of the pre-tax flows).

Example 7 part a, the cost of debt (kd) is 8.89%. After calculating you said that if the same was to be issued in stock market, the investors would desire the same return, otherwise why would they invest.
I didn’t understand this.
Also why is Kd calculated? the cost of debt is already known i.e, 8%. So when Kd is calculated, there will be 2 cost of debt percentages i.e, 8% and 8.89% . What is it’s difference?

8% is not the cost of debt. It is the coupon rate (the interest on nominal). Maybe when the debt was originally issued, 8% was an attractive rate. However, if investors were to buy the debt now on the stock exchange they would get a return of 8.89%. So if new debt were to be issued only offering 8% nobody would buy it – the company will have to offer 8.89% for it to be attractive.

You may find the free F9 lectures on the cost of capital to be helpful.

Yes it is – in the same way as normal.
One positive and one negative gives a better approximation, but if you do end up with two positives (or two negatives) then you can still go ahead with them.

Very nice lectures, but i have a question plz help me to explain
eg 7 & 8 in chapter 7. which one has higher cost btw for Irredeemable debt and redeemable debt? and you guest discount rate in example 8 based on what criteria ?. Your result is far than 6%

I am not sure what you mean by the first part of your question – they are two separate examples and in example 7 the cost of debt is 6.22% whereas in the second example it is 10%.
The fact that one is irredeemable and the other redeemable just means that we do the arithmetic differently – it is not the reason that one has a higher cost that the other. Either of the two could have been higher.

In example 8, we need to calculate the internal rate of return and the approach is exactly the same as when you calculated IRR for projects in Paper F9 – we make two guesses and then approximate between them to find where the NPV is zero. I guessed at 5% and 10% for part (a), but I could have made any two guesses.
For part (b) I guessed at 10% (simply because 10% is in the middle of the tables). If the answer had not come so close to zero then I would have made a second guess and approximated in the same way as I did for part (a).

There is no reason that the answer should be close to 6% which is the coupon rate. What we are trying to calculate in part (a) is the return that investors are currently getting if they buy the existing debt on the stock exchange. Since they are currently getting 11.86%, then there is no way that they would lend more money to the company unless they were offered 11.86% (but it would actually cost the company less because they get tax relief on the interest, which is why workings (b) are necessary).

how does you got -0.77 i didn’t understand .from 1-5 year present value was 15.92 and at 5 year was 68.31 so what did you do to get -0.77.
other thing is suppose answer is no close to zero but still negative so should we have to guess other percentage less then 10%

-0.77 is the net present value of the flows: 15.92 + 68.31 – 85 = -0.77

We are calculating the Internal Rate of Return of the flows in exactly the same was as we do for projects (and as you did for F9) by making two guesses and then approximating between them (as we did in part (a) of this question).

For part (b) I was ‘lucky’ because the NPV was virtually zero at 10% and so I did not need a second guess. If it was not so close to zero then I would have had to make a second guess and approximate in the same sort of way as for part (a).

I have a question, too. Why the pricing in example 7 & 8 quoted in ex int (excluding interest?)

And I can’t remember the difference in various debts. I remember there was a exam question about vanila bond. Can you give me a more detailed information about different type of debts?

@annalla, Debt is always quoted ex int in the exam, unless you are told otherwise. Here the questions actually say that they are ex int (i.e. that interest has just been paid).

Vanilla debt is debt with no unusual features (so not convertible, no warrants attached, no premium on redemption – just interest each year and then repayment at par.)

anonymous says

Sir, pls. correct me:

Kd is the return required by the investors, which is different from cost to the company because of the existence of tax- (1-t).

Ke though is the same as the cost of the company as there is no tax relief for equity.

Am I right?

John Moffat says

True – Kd is the return to investors which is pre-tax. The cost to the company is Kd(1-T) if it is irredeemable debt. However if (as is more likely in the exam) it is redeemable debt then it does not equal Kd(1-T) – we need to calculate the IRR of the after-tax flows (whereas Kd is the IRR of the pre-tax flows).

anonymous says

Thank you Sir.

anonymous says

Hi Sir

Example 7 part a, the cost of debt (kd) is 8.89%. After calculating you said that if the same was to be issued in stock market, the investors would desire the same return, otherwise why would they invest.

I didn’t understand this.

Also why is Kd calculated? the cost of debt is already known i.e, 8%. So when Kd is calculated, there will be 2 cost of debt percentages i.e, 8% and 8.89% . What is it’s difference?

John Moffat says

8% is not the cost of debt. It is the coupon rate (the interest on nominal). Maybe when the debt was originally issued, 8% was an attractive rate. However, if investors were to buy the debt now on the stock exchange they would get a return of 8.89%. So if new debt were to be issued only offering 8% nobody would buy it – the company will have to offer 8.89% for it to be attractive.

You may find the free F9 lectures on the cost of capital to be helpful.

anonymous says

Thank you Sir, I understood now.

sogan0 says

Why is our aim to get NPV close to zero when we do the two guesses or is that the rule

John Moffat says

The market value is the present value of the future receipts, so the net present value needs to be zero.

kapils says

Hi Sir Good Evening,

I would like to clarify one point. Is it Possible to use two negative PV cash flows when doing an IRR Calculation?

John Moffat says

Yes it is – in the same way as normal.

One positive and one negative gives a better approximation, but if you do end up with two positives (or two negatives) then you can still go ahead with them.

kapils says

Thank you very much.

Saqlain says

how many hours required for p4 lectures ??

John Moffat says

Sorry, but I have no idea! Assume on average about 40 minutes per lecture.

Saqlain says

want to end these in 10 days .. is it possible??

vicool says

really helpful as i m doing selfstudiesi want tgo make sure which studyguide and revision kit useful 4 me whether kaplan or BPP.

John Moffat says

Kaplan and BPP Revision Kits are both good – it makes no difference which one you chose.

tsk1975 says

When I click on the p4 lecturers..the video that plays is for p5. What should I do to play the p4 videos.

John Moffat says

The lectures are all working fine – the problem must be at your end.

I suggest that you clear the cache and the history in your browser.

If that does not work then you will have to try another browser.

tsk1975 says

Thank you let me try…

buicuong says

Very nice lectures, but i have a question plz help me to explain

eg 7 & 8 in chapter 7. which one has higher cost btw for Irredeemable debt and redeemable debt? and you guest discount rate in example 8 based on what criteria ?. Your result is far than 6%

John Moffat says

I am not sure what you mean by the first part of your question – they are two separate examples and in example 7 the cost of debt is 6.22% whereas in the second example it is 10%.

The fact that one is irredeemable and the other redeemable just means that we do the arithmetic differently – it is not the reason that one has a higher cost that the other. Either of the two could have been higher.

In example 8, we need to calculate the internal rate of return and the approach is exactly the same as when you calculated IRR for projects in Paper F9 – we make two guesses and then approximate between them to find where the NPV is zero. I guessed at 5% and 10% for part (a), but I could have made any two guesses.

For part (b) I guessed at 10% (simply because 10% is in the middle of the tables). If the answer had not come so close to zero then I would have made a second guess and approximated in the same way as I did for part (a).

There is no reason that the answer should be close to 6% which is the coupon rate. What we are trying to calculate in part (a) is the return that investors are currently getting if they buy the existing debt on the stock exchange. Since they are currently getting 11.86%, then there is no way that they would lend more money to the company unless they were offered 11.86% (but it would actually cost the company less because they get tax relief on the interest, which is why workings (b) are necessary).

03217677395 says

how does you got -0.77 i didn’t understand .from 1-5 year present value was 15.92 and at 5 year was 68.31 so what did you do to get -0.77.

other thing is suppose answer is no close to zero but still negative so should we have to guess other percentage less then 10%

John Moffat says

-0.77 is the net present value of the flows: 15.92 + 68.31 – 85 = -0.77

We are calculating the Internal Rate of Return of the flows in exactly the same was as we do for projects (and as you did for F9) by making two guesses and then approximating between them (as we did in part (a) of this question).

For part (b) I was ‘lucky’ because the NPV was virtually zero at 10% and so I did not need a second guess. If it was not so close to zero then I would have had to make a second guess and approximate in the same sort of way as for part (a).

zain224 says

awsome lecture

njnierras says

i cannot load the video please somebody help?

admin says

Please visit the support page: http://opentuition.com/support/

annalla says

Dear John,

Thank you very much for your reply.

krishnamr007 says

i have a small doubt.

Can i appear for the other ACCA optional specialisations which i didn’t attempt, even after completing my ACCA qualification.

John Moffat says

@krishnamr007, Yes you can – you can find out about it on the ACCA website.

desperatetopass says

I am not getting audio on the lectures. Is this problem unique to me? I need to revise n short on time.

annalla says

Dear lecturer,

Thank you for your lesson.

I have a question, too. Why the pricing in example 7 & 8 quoted in ex int (excluding interest?)

And I can’t remember the difference in various debts. I remember there was a exam question about vanila bond. Can you give me a more detailed information about different type of debts?

Thank you very much.

John Moffat says

@annalla, Debt is always quoted ex int in the exam, unless you are told otherwise. Here the questions actually say that they are ex int (i.e. that interest has just been paid).

Vanilla debt is debt with no unusual features (so not convertible, no warrants attached, no premium on redemption – just interest each year and then repayment at par.)

hassam2341912 says

How can I download this??? Coz I need to vew these in my office, i dont get time at home!!

Please tell!!!!

admin says

lectures are on line only

not downloadable

that’s the only way this site exists and is free

utn9 says

It is great lectures….