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May 25, 2016 at 7:26 am
Hi. Thank you for the lecture. I just didn’t get why u accounted for the volume of NCI in goodwill calculation as 40% of 395 instead of 40% of 325 (which is 600-275). Please clarify if possible.
May 25, 2016 at 8:38 am
Watch the video again starting at 9 minutes
You appear to want to ignore the share capital of the subsidiary – I have no idea why you would want to do that!
April 23, 2016 at 6:47 pm
Can I ask why do you minus excess depreciation from the selling company? Isn’t the excess net off from the buyer’s retained earnings? That way, aren’t we supposed to add back the excess value on the buyer’s side instead? Thank you!
April 23, 2016 at 8:37 pm
I’ve answered a question very similar just recently!
The current thinking is that the unrealised profit becomes realised over the period of the life of the asset. So, as each year passes, some of that pup becomes realised.
Why, the amount of the depreciation on the excess
So the NET pup is shown as an adjustment to the seller’s retained earnings
April 20, 2016 at 3:14 pm
wonderful lecture, thank you.
If we have to make adjustments for unrealised profits at the end of the accounting year, why not just transfer TNCA and even inventory at cost rather at a profit and then having to make adjustments later?
April 20, 2016 at 7:21 pm
Good question! However, the adjustments for pups are made solely for the purposes of consolidation. The individual financial statements for the individual companies are not adjusted for pups
Does that explain it?
April 21, 2016 at 3:30 pm
Yes it does! Thank you. 🙂
March 12, 2016 at 4:15 pm
Normally deduct 1000 (5000-1000) from group retained earnings and add back 250 (inflated depreciation: 1250-1000) to subsidiary post acquisition profit the logic is that the one who sold the asset should remove the profit and the one who bought the asset holds the asset should add back inflated depreciation we cannot put it 1000-250 because NCI is affected by inflated depreciation
March 12, 2016 at 9:00 pm
The entries, both the pup on the sale AND the adjustment for the inflated adjustment, should be through the retained earnings of the selling company!
March 4, 2016 at 2:42 pm
This video is sticking a lot…….can’t watch video. Please fix!
May 25, 2015 at 11:08 am
Hey, I’m having trouble watching this video. All the other videos are fine but this one continues to reload over and over again. I tried on numerous devices (Phone, laptop, tablet and even a P.C). Please help.
May 25, 2015 at 11:23 am
maybe it is temporary glitch, the video works fine,
May 9, 2015 at 2:28 pm
Thanks Mike, you are quicker than Batman!
One thing I want to confirm here that whenever the “Negative” goodwill arises then it should always completely add in Group Retained Earning ? It doesn’t really matter that either a NCI value is given or it proportionate ?? I mean should we require to apportion the amount of negative goodwill if NCI is not proportionate ??
May 9, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Hi saqib you need to put this on the ask the tuitor page if you want to be surre that mike sees it
January 29, 2016 at 3:47 pm
Hi Saqib, whenever there is a negative good will that means there has been a profit on bargain for purchase of the subsidiary therefore, it is considered as reserves and added to retained earnings, why it is not given a share in the NCI is because it is a benefit to the Parent company based on its bargain and as such the NCI can not benefit from this.
But if goodwill was positive notice it is not good will that is apportioned to NCI but the percentage of value impaired if any and if the bases of the NCI is not proportionate.
April 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
I’d like some help on the following question:
“The acquisition of Subsidiary (S) by Parent (P) took place on 1/10/x0.
Immediately after the acquisition P transferred an item of plant with a carrying amount of $4,000 to S an agreed value of $5,000. At this date the plant had a remaining life of 2 1/2 years.
P had included the profit the profit on this transfer as a reduction in its depreciation costs. All depreciation is charged to the CoS.”
Calculate the depreciation.
Consolidated accounts are being prepared for the YE 31.3.x1
The answer says depreciation is:
Profit on transfer $5000 – $4000 = $1,000
Proportion depreciated 0.5 / 2.5 = ($200)
Unrealised Profit = $800
Dr CoS $800
Cr Plant $800
My question is, why is the profit multiplied by 0.5?
Is it because although a full years’ depreciation should be charged in the year of acquisition, P acquired S half way through their financial year and therefore have pro-rated the depreciation charge?
If this is the case, what has happened to the remaining depreciation charge for that year? Are we to assume that depreciation prior to acquisition has already been charged to CoS?
April 4, 2015 at 4:06 pm
The depreciation of that asset is split into two parts. The first part (the first six months of the year) the depreciation is accounted for in the records of the parent company and is taken into account in arriving at the carrying value as at date of transfer.
The second part (since date of acquisition until the year end) is accounted for in the subsidiary and, since it’s only half a year, then the element of depreciation that is to be charged in the subsidiary’s statement of profit or loss is depreciation for a full year but then divided by 2 because it’s only for half a year
It’s actually an unfortunate example because the depreciation for half a year on the $5,000 asset is $1,000 and that figure is the same as the pup on the initial transfer 🙁
You say in your post that “although a full year’s depreciation should be charged in the year of acquisition ….”
What makes you think that?
April 4, 2015 at 4:18 pm
Thanks Mike 🙂
In my last comment, I meant that the rule is for a full years depreciation to be charged in the year of acquisition and none in the year of disposal.
Ordinarily if the asset was acquired on 1.10.x0 then depreciation should’t have been pro-rated, but from what I understand, half the years’ depreciation was already charged in the Subsidiary, therefore the remaining half would be charged to the Parent after acquisition, and when looking at the group accounts, a whole year’s depreciation would have been charged.
Or maybe I am just totally confused… in which case I think I will just give up and focus on answering the rest of the questions correctly.
April 4, 2015 at 4:36 pm
Don’t give up!
The parent is selling to the subsidiary so 6 months’ pre-transfer depreciation is in the parent and now we need 6 months’ post-transfer depreciation in the subsidiary.
You are quoting this rule to me as though it is cast in tablets of stone “…. the rule is for a full year’s depreciation ….”
That’s not a rule! It’s a policy that some companies choose to adopt, but it’s not a rule
April 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Ahhh I thought it was the rule set in stone by IFRS/IAS
Thanks for the heads up!
March 12, 2016 at 4:14 pm
May 25, 2016 at 8:17 am
I do wish that you hadn’t posted this and that I had seen it earlier!
Calculate the profit on the transfer,
deduct the appropriate element of depreciation on that profit to arrive at a net figure and
deduct that NET figure from the retained earnings of the company that was making the transfer
February 10, 2015 at 8:03 pm
Apologies for raising this query on the lecture site rather than “ask the tutor”. Just thought it might be quicker than referring back to the lecture example. My query is if the example above had made the exact same transaction but from the sub to the parent (i.e. PUP of 10 on sale less the excess of 5 on dep’n now in parent company) then the net effect is now a reduction in the sub rather than parent – Dr Ret Earn, CR TNCA etc.
Does the sub now present as follows on the consolidated statement of retained earnings (for the sub);
Per Question 600
Pre Acq (275)
Less: PUP (5)
Post Acq 320
This would leave post-acq for parent as 60% x 320 = $192,000. I’m assuming this is correct as the 600 would (theoretically) already incorporate the accelerated depn etc. Equally the NCI of 40% in W4 would then be 40% x 320 = $128,000.
Many thanks for your help in advance and many thanks for getting me through my F4 paper last month too!
April 4, 2015 at 4:39 pm
This is pure chance that I saw this post – I rarely look at the comments after the lectures. You, of all people, should know that I respond always when the post is on “Ask the Tutor” but it’s a rare occurrence that I see other posts.
Your principles are correct (I don’t have the question in front of me, but so long as the figures that you are using are correct, then so too are your observations)
Congratulations of your F4 roaring success – I bet you’re missing it now….all that fun and excitement!
February 9, 2015 at 6:06 pm
Hi Mike, im just wondering why the net pups is written off against the retained earning of the selling company only.
Taking this example, the parent made a sale of asset to the sub making a profit of 10. Therefore the subsidiary is charging extra depreciation (of 5)
So logically, the profit of 10 should be charged against the retained earning of the parent while the extra depreciation of 5 should be added on to the retained earning of the subsisidiary. This would affect working 3 . cons retained earning.right?
April 4, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Jonathan, if ever in the future you want a tutor to respond, please post your question on the ask the tutor page. It’s a rare occurrence that we look at other posts!
It used to be the case that we eliminated the profit on disposal from the seller’s retained earnings and added the excess depreciation back to the buyer’s retained earnings.
This changed about 4 years ago so the NET adjustment is now made in the seller’s retained earnings
April 8, 2015 at 6:28 am
Ok. got it. Thanks a lot Mr. Mike 🙂
January 13, 2015 at 9:40 am
Fantastic! The step by step approach is interesting. I recommend these series of lectures for all ICAN students in Nigeria.
The method used to treat inter group non current assets. How can we compute depreciation if useful life of the asset is unknown using the short method you recommended?
I mean how can I compute depreciation using (unrealized profit divided by remaining useful life)
January 13, 2015 at 11:35 am
A question HAS to give you that information. Let me turn your question round ….. how can you calculate depreciation if you use the “long” way round and the examiner doesn’t tell you remaining useful life?
December 16, 2014 at 3:29 pm
sir you are a genius with that shortcut.
November 24, 2014 at 11:25 am
Hi,For December 2014 exam the consolidation question is going to be 30 mark or 15 mark?
August 24, 2014 at 9:40 am
Could you please explain, the example says, that assets fully depreciated in the year of purchase and none in the year of sale.
Is this a kind of examiner trick? because we do have a sale (to our subsidiary) but we still charge depreciation?
August 24, 2014 at 12:27 pm
Yes, but it’s the subsidiary that is charging depreciation because the subsidiary has just bought the asset.
The parent has sold the asset and therefore is not charging depreciation (in the year of sale)
May 11, 2014 at 7:07 pm
PUP means what exactly?
May 11, 2014 at 7:08 pm
as in PUP is the abbreviation of what? 🙂
May 11, 2014 at 7:36 pm
PUP = Provision for Unrealised Profits 😀
Quick and easy way for PUP:
Profit from transfer / number of years remaining useful life
Profit from transfer less answer above = PUP
That diagram helped me understand the fast way to calculate.
April 5, 2014 at 10:40 pm
Great lectures Sir, I’ve Passed my 5 exams (F1, F2, F3, F4, F6) on first attempts with the help of opentution. Without these i would have been stuck in ACCA forever. Thank you for sharing the great knowledge and helping us.
February 14, 2014 at 3:50 pm
sir, i’m madly in love with your delivery. impeccable lectures… but i just wanna be sure if i could, in the adding of TNCA of Lina and Asta, just reduce the assets by only the net adjustment (5) rather than -10+5. Just don’t like losing silly marks so i wanna be sure…. thanks sir.
February 14, 2014 at 4:01 pm
Hi, you’re right, just the NET figure
NB, ask the tutor pages are now re-opened after our Christmas break between exams and results
February 17, 2014 at 10:07 am
Thanks a lot Sir.
February 17, 2014 at 2:52 pm
February 6, 2014 at 12:14 pm
Very nice lecture sir! 🙂 Just a quick question, for this example we got the depreciation on a straight line basis, in the exam must we expect reducing balance as well? Thx.
February 7, 2014 at 9:09 am
You can expect two types of depreciation in the F7 exam – normally it’s straight line and reducing balance. But sum of the digits method has been asked and, in a recent question 5 (I think) there was a “complex asset” question involving 5 (I think) elements of a ship being depreciated in different ways over different periods of time. Yes, question 2 will typically have both s-l and reducing balance, but others could be in there too
January 13, 2014 at 5:06 pm
Has this lecture been updated for the June 2014 exam?
January 13, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Yes, it’s up to date and back in line with the course notes
January 13, 2014 at 7:00 pm
thank you 🙂
January 14, 2014 at 8:31 am
November 17, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Dear Sir Mike,
I read the comments and you said that this lecture is outdated so Do I only view the notes or if this lecture is still applicable for current exams? Please do reply me asap, Thanks in advance 🙂
November 17, 2013 at 3:37 pm
The only little way in which it is outdated is in the treatment of the depreciation on the transferred non-current asset.
In the lecture the extra depreciation calculated on the profit element of the transferred asset is adjusted in the records of the buyer.
This has now changed and the NET gain on transfer, net after the depreciation, is adjusted in the records of the selling company – so there’s no adjustment to be made to the records of the buying company
November 17, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Thank you sir, that means its still applicable now with only a little bit of exception of treatment of non current assets transferred, Thanks Again I understood, God bless you! 🙂
November 18, 2013 at 9:41 am
Mike, every thing fine but this changes in the net effect of profit and dep changed by whom. I mean by IAS or IFRS can you please give the reference.
Thank you sir, God bless you
Can you please mark the reference through which the changed affected
November 18, 2013 at 10:16 am
You’re right – it does change both working 3 and working 4.
And, no, I cannot give you the reference – (I would if I could remember it)
November 21, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Therefore what would be consolidated retained earnings in working 3 of Linas & Asta?
October 27, 2013 at 5:17 pm
i am a cima students but a very excellent teaching style….love you sir,i learn all consolidation from these lectures so so conceptual…..thanks a lot
September 27, 2013 at 10:42 am
GOOD TEACHER open tution ,
Marvellous and very well lecture .
September 11, 2013 at 1:21 am
I AM SPRRY TUTOR….YOU ANSWER TO EXAMPLE 3 OF CHAPTER 8 DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE MODEL ANSWER….YOU HAVE INCORRECTLY DEALT WITH THE DEPRECIATION AND PROFIT IN THE PUP CALULATION.
October 27, 2013 at 5:40 pm
Hi – yes, you’re probably correct. The rules changed some 2 years ago. The current situation is that the NET adjustment is made in the records of the seller company
November 17, 2013 at 10:26 am
Have you not made any update videos on that, sir? Can you explain this change in detail please.
November 17, 2013 at 10:30 am
The video recording equipment is no longer as available to us as formerly. No, I haven’t re-recorded the section – I’ll see if I can find time over the coming close season, but thanks for reminding me
November 17, 2013 at 12:43 pm
That would be great, sir. But as I have a exam this session and since the older method is not anymore applicable. So we will deduct the excess depreciation from the PUP and then deduct the net amount from the selling company’s assets?
November 17, 2013 at 1:59 pm
Correct. So the only change from the recording is that, instead of adjusting the depreciation in the buyer’s records, the NET pup on the TNCA transfer is adjusted in the seller’s records
September 3, 2013 at 1:35 pm
I think you have loaded the wrong video because this one up here is exactly the same as the previous video which is “INTER-ENTITY TRANSACTIONS DIVIDENDS EXAMPLE4′ and it doesn’t talk about transfer of non current assets at all ………..so……can you check it out. Thank you again!
September 3, 2013 at 1:53 pm
it should be fine now
September 3, 2013 at 3:37 am
I can view all other videos but I just can’t view the ACCA F7 TRANSFER OF NON-CURRENT ASSETS under chapter 8. I’ve tried it for two days with different devices and different browsers.I’ve used different computers and smart phones but still can’t view this video. It gives me the same thing, it is blank no buttons or whatsoever…I can see the comments under the video but there is nothing on the top where the video supposed to be except the big red title. HELP! Can anybody please help me out here!!!!!!!
September 3, 2013 at 8:29 am
it was because you can’t access youtube.. ANYWAY. it should play OK now
September 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Thank you so much!
yes i can play it now and you are right I can’t access youtube here without some “breaking through”
but thanks anyway!
September 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm
July 26, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Dear Mr Little,
Thanks for this. It is all clear, just one little detail which is confusing me, in example 3 – I am not very sure where did we get the figure of 100 from? The non current asset had a carrying value of 80 and it was sold for 90, am really not sure why we calculated it as sold for 100 and therefore the PUP is 20.
July 26, 2013 at 5:17 pm
I think that, if you read the other posts on this string, you’ll find the answer to your question. The lecture MAY have been using an example I made up on the spur of the moment whereas the course notes should be correct
July 26, 2013 at 7:28 pm
I see! Apologies – It did not occur to me to check the notes, true, the answer there is correct. Anyway, am glad that it is cleared up now, I was concerned there is a point I have missed which led us to calculate the pup on a S.P. of 100.
Thanks Mr little.
July 27, 2013 at 6:20 pm
July 5, 2013 at 6:39 pm
May 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Mike, at the end of the lecture you said it effects both w3 and w4. for working 4 obviously it effects the amount of retained earnings to be apportioned between P&S but does the additional $50 get added to the NCI value? i.e w4 would look like
Value of NCI x
& Share of S post acq profits 325
do we then add on the $50 of dividend it is to recieve?
May 26, 2013 at 5:49 pm
On p.52 in Example 3 it says about depreciations: “… with a full year’s charge in the year of purchase and NON in the year of sale”. Shouldn’t the depreciation surplus be 50?
May 19, 2013 at 7:54 pm
Has anyone else noticed that in the course notes the asset was sold for 90000 and not 100000?
May 24, 2013 at 4:43 am
@ silvikss,. Yes, i noticed that one too. Its the same principles whether 90,000 or 100,000 i guess, just the pup should have been 10 not 20. the double entry used 20 so CS of FP will still balance. Cheers
April 22, 2013 at 7:44 pm
Hi Mike, do you teach face to face in the UK at all? I’m currently studying at BPP though I prefer your teaching style to be honest! Thanks
July 6, 2013 at 7:35 am
Sorry, but I haven’t taught in the UK for at least 10 years, but I’m still happy to receive your compliments 🙂
April 12, 2013 at 3:38 pm
could you please tell how did you calculate the depreciation for 2009???
and how did you get the depreciation excess of 5000???
April 21, 2013 at 7:29 am
PUP (Unrealized profit/ #of years remaining life) 10000/2=5000
February 21, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Dear Mr Mike Little,
FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT!!! I REALLY LIKE YOUR TEACHING STYLE.
Is the answer in the course notes for example 3, chapter 8 correct (page 160)?
I am asking due to the different approaches in your lecture and in the course notes in regards to the PUP and excess depreciation (Selling company / Buying company???).
Shall we use the SELLING company ONLY in the exam, as mentioned in the answer to example 3???
May I also ask you to always explain everything, as if all of us students wanted to achieve high marks. You mentioned in one of the earlier F7 lectures that certain figures could be written out as a Revaluation Reserve, but you did not go ahead in the end and proceeded with the figures in the W3 Cons. Ret. Ears calculation.. Since then I am wondering how to deal with the Revaluation Reserve.
Once again. THANK YOU SOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!
May 24, 2013 at 6:48 am
The pup on an intra-group asset transfer should be adjusted in the SELLING company NET of the depreciation on the profit. It may be that the above lecture does it the old way where some was adjusted in the selling company and some in the buying company.
It is now the case that both profit AND depreciation are adjusted in the selling company
July 5, 2013 at 6:36 pm
Will it then be marked wrong to adjust profit and dpn separately as you did- In Selling and Buying Co?
July 6, 2013 at 7:33 am
Yes, I imagine it will.
February 18, 2013 at 4:58 pm
hi , admin Youtube is not accessible in my country. dear admin plz provide the download link or plz make it available online. plz help.
March 29, 2013 at 4:10 pm
please install hotspot shield to make ur youtube work and lectures will be available again.
ratan sarkar says
February 11, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Lecture on Transfer of Non-Current is not responding or opening. Pls check it.
February 13, 2013 at 3:28 pm
can anyone help me to know how to get a pup of $ 20,000 in Lindas example 3- chapter 8,a bit confused
February 17, 2013 at 6:35 pm
The lecturer has taken the sale of the asset as $100 instead of $90, if you review the answer in the lecture notes the pup is $10 and dep’n $5.
February 6, 2013 at 4:53 pm
I know when there is a negative goodwill, you add up the amount to the retained earnings as its your profit, but whats the double entry? If CR. Retained Earnings, then DR. ??
July 6, 2013 at 7:30 am
“Goodwill Account” or the account in which you have recorded the acquisition – maybe an account called “Cost of Control Account” or “Cost of Acquiring Subsidiary Account”
November 3, 2012 at 8:45 am
i can’t catch the lyrics or song that use for Working 2 and 3. Can write out the lyrics to help me to remember?
November 3, 2012 at 12:15 pm
@annz2020, There really isn’t a song for working 2.
However, the working 3 song goes as follows ( H is the holding company, more commonly called the parent company these days, and S is the subsidiary. )
“H’s own plus
H’s share of S post acq retained less
Goodwill impaired since acquisition ( just our share )”
If there’s an associate involved then we need to introduce two extra lines – line 3 and line 5
H’s share of S post acq retained plus
H’s share of A post acq retained less
Goodwill impaired since acquisition ( just our share ) less
Impairment in A since acquisition”
October 30, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Please to fix this lecture i have try the youtube link and still no sound.
October 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm
This lecture does not work , no sound. Help!
October 6, 2012 at 3:30 pm
Thanks admin for providing the YouTube link! I watched the vedio till 8 minutes and 37seconds left (where tutor says:”I made the figures up”), and it won’t go on any further…
I also noticed that the answer shown in the vedio is different from that in the notes. Which is correct then?
October 6, 2012 at 3:43 pm
@c0712, Sorry, the first problem solved.
October 6, 2012 at 5:03 pm
@c0712, If I’ve said “I made the figures up” it’s because a student asked eg “Which page are we on?” or “Where are these figures from?”
Now, before I started making the figures up, I will have said, for example “Say….” or “For example, if ….”
…and that’s why the video is not consistent with the notes – it’s because I was making the figures up!
October 7, 2012 at 3:19 am
@MikeLittle, Thanks Mike, but I’m afraid I was misunderstood.
I mean, for example 3 chapter 8, the answer you gave in the lecture is different from the answer given in the notes (December version).
October 7, 2012 at 12:17 pm
@c0712, Ah, maybe! I used to teach the accounting entries for pups on TNCA transfers as entries in both the buyer’s and the seller’s records and that’s the way it is probably dealt with in the video lectures. I DID change the notes in the Summer, but I haven’t re-recorded to appropriate lecture yet.
February 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm
So during the exam should we adjust both seller’s and buyer’s (the way its done in the video) retained earnings or just the seller’s (the way its done in the notes)?
October 6, 2012 at 3:51 am
No vedio comes out for this lesson?Only for this lesson. Others are good? Anybody else having the same problem?Thanks?
October 6, 2012 at 4:02 am
@c0712, Why all the punctuation marks changed to question marks?
October 6, 2012 at 11:40 am
@c0712, That?s a good question?
October 6, 2012 at 1:22 pm
@MikeLittle, I realy want to watch this lecture, and I’ve tried different browsers – ie, safari and chrome, but none of them worked…
October 6, 2012 at 1:30 pm
@c0712, try this lecture on youtube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tt4EY-sqw&feature=player_embedded&noredirect=1
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