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April 19, 2016 at 7:26 am
I am struggling with not consolidating pre-acquisition retained earnings. My thinking is: since you own 100% of the shares of the company, then everything it owns is now yours – including its pre-acquisition retained earnings.
I also think of it this way: who does retained earnings belong to? – Current shareholders, right? If that is the case, then all of the retained earnings should be consolidated.
Help me out, please…
April 19, 2016 at 8:13 am
Two directions to attack this question!
1 The concept of consolidation is to reflect “Control” and the pre-acquisition earnings were not achieved whilst the new subsidiary was under the control of the parent. Therefore to consolidate those pre-acquisition retained earnings would give a totally misleading picture to our own shareholders and other stakeholders
2 We don’t consolidate the acquisition cost of buying the subsidiary do we? The cost of acquisition is represented by tour share of the fair value of the subsidiary assets acquired.
But we don’t know the individual values of those subsidiary net assets.
What we DO know is the shareholders’ funds = net assets and we also know that shareholders’ funds comprise share capital and reserves
The balancing figure between the cost of the investment and fair value of the subsidiary net assets at the date of acquisition is called goodwill
So, if we pay $100 and acquire $90 worth of net assets (capital plus reserves) then we have $10 goodwill
But we’re not going to show $100 in the consolidation and we’re not going to show $90 capital and reserves in the consolidation
That means that we’re missing off $100 debits and $90 credits.
We need this to balance so we SHALL include the $10 goodwill debit
Does that make it any clearer?
February 17, 2016 at 5:31 am
February 5, 2016 at 9:58 am
can we download lectures/vedio
February 5, 2016 at 10:03 am
No, sorry, videos are not downloadable.
It’s the only way we can keep this site free
February 6, 2016 at 8:54 am
February 6, 2016 at 9:49 am
October 28, 2015 at 11:59 pm
Mike I took F7 along with F8 and sort of neglected it and concentrated mainly on F8….it didnt help that my lectures were delivered by a fella from LSBF deeply in love with mentioning his own name…and to put it mildly I found the whole experience off-putting. To say that you have been a god send, would be a massive understatement!
P.s. Got as close as 47% last time round……not trying to put any pressure on you or anything, but anything under 56% this time around, will not only affect my average but will make me question as to what else could one need more than your lectures!!! 🙂
Essentially, this is a very long winded way of saying thank you! 🙂
October 29, 2015 at 5:36 am
Thank you for that – but I’m not sure about something. Does this mean that you have now passed with 56% or are you going for F7 in December?
October 29, 2015 at 3:24 pm
December session! 56% is the absolute minimum that I expect from you Mike. I will of course do my bit too! 🙂
October 29, 2015 at 5:08 pm
So, no pressure then!
July 10, 2015 at 11:55 pm
Just assessed your resources for the first time. Am happy by what have read. would be regular in the forum and would spread the massage. well done.
September 6, 2015 at 6:30 pm
I have a question
What if a company has more than 50% of the share in the subsidiary company but it doesn’t have the control of the subsidiary as you mention there are some exception so in that situation will the holding company has to prepare the group account?
I guess the holding company shouldn’t prepare as they don’t have the power to control but if they don’t prepare the group account will it not be misleading for the investors?
September 6, 2015 at 8:53 pm
To qualify as a subsidiary, a company has to be under the control of the parent. On the face of it, a holding of the majority of the voting power in another company suggests that the investor has a subsidiary.
But if, for whatever reason, the investor is not able to exercise that voting control, then the invested company (the supposed subsidiary) cannot be treated as a subsidiary and will therefore not be included within any consolidation
In fact, if this is the only investment held by the “parent”, then no consolidation would be appropriate.
You mention about misleading the parent’s own shareholders. That problem can be easily avoided simply by full and frank disclosure in the parent’s own financial statements.
September 7, 2015 at 3:55 am
Thanks mike I get it 🙂
May 7, 2015 at 11:25 am
Dear Sir, i enjoy the lectures very well but in the introduction 2,i need more explanation on the pre acquisition and the post acquisition figures.
please reply me
May 7, 2015 at 3:32 pm
I think that you’ll find that they become clearer as you work through the examples in the course notes. If not, and if you’re still struggling with them, then post again
March 4, 2015 at 6:42 am
Dear Sir/Madam ,
I cant watch those videos, are you updating these videos on YouTube this year ? Cause I can’t watch YouTube neither.
March 4, 2015 at 8:05 am
Use Tor browser. or google chrome with the Extension: ZenMate Security & Privacy VPN
April 12, 2014 at 2:49 am
i was also questioning whether the subsiduary that you no longer control is consolidated and in that case surely you would no longer call it a subsiduary as a subsiduary company is a company that you control, would you then class this as an associate…this is not made very clear in the lecture and if a question did come up in the exam it would be very helpfull to know.
August 24, 2014 at 5:59 pm
“the subsiduary that you no longer control” is a contradiction in terms! It cannot be a subsidiary if you no longer control it because a subsidiary is defined as “an entity controlled by another entity”
This will never come up in an F7 examination (maybe it would come up in P2). Would you class it as an associate? It depends what sort of influence your (say) 60% of the shares has in the eyes of a liquidator!
I think you’re asking the question “Even though we may have 60% of the shares and 60% of the votes, in the circumstance where we are no longer in control, do we treat the investee as an associate?”
The answer really depends on the circumstances behind your loss of control. If it’s because a liquidator has been appointed to liquidate the subsidiary, then you would no longer consolidate and you would revalue your investment (possibly even to $zero)
March 3, 2014 at 3:41 pm
Dear sir, you said that a subsidiary is an entity controlled by another entity and the parent need to prepare consolidated FS.
But considering the examples of >50% of voting rights but not in control due to loan from third party and the third party now has the control over the board, does the subsidiary still consider as the our subsidiary or the third party subsidiary? Do we still need to prepare consolidated FS for the subsidiary? Or will the Lender of the Loan become the new parent of the subsidiary and need to prepare the consolidated FS?
March 3, 2014 at 6:43 pm
Good question! It’s never happened in an exam question, but I assume the lender (in control) will have to consolidate their subsidiary
November 29, 2013 at 8:02 am
Many thanks for the valuable resources you’re providing for all members of this forum. I have a question regarding the consolidation of the retained earnings, since you consolidate the part of the retained earnings that was accumulated after the acquisition date, then what will happen to the part was accumulated before the acquisition ?
the other question why we exclude the pre-acquisition part of the retained earning from the consolidated retained earning while it represent part of net equity we have paid our money for ?
August 29, 2013 at 4:09 pm
great lecture just want to make sure i got this right, if the parent company has effective control of the subsidary then consolidated accounts are prepared but if they own more than 50% of shares but does not have effective control, what is the accounting treatment?
August 29, 2013 at 5:50 pm
Presumably shown as at fair value as at the date effective control was lost – and then periodic impairment review
August 29, 2013 at 6:06 pm
oh i see thanks
June 26, 2013 at 10:50 am
help me to download the F7 lectures please. am able to watch but have failed to download.
May 29, 2013 at 8:43 pm
April 14, 2013 at 5:48 am
Thanks for your lecture. But I have some quries . For example, If a partnership company start incorporate a new Ltd company with current partners and employees , do we need to prepare consolidated statement?
February 19, 2013 at 12:55 pm
sorry retraction .I now understand ma mistake
February 19, 2013 at 9:59 am
thank you Mike.Then in example 1 for group acounts why are we not consolidating the recivables ,cash ,inventory for the parent and subsidiary because we only considered the parents figures.Or is that we add both after incoporation.I thought invery would be (8+4),cash (4-3)+1and Receivables(6+2).
February 18, 2013 at 8:21 am
i want to know that if preparing the interim statement if you are using the half year results of the subsidiary then for the parent company which results do you use .Is it also the half year results or the whole year.
February 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm
If it’s interim acounts, then you must use the same – ie half year for parent as well as subsidiary.
If I have understood your question correctly!
February 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm
very good lecture
November 14, 2012 at 2:48 pm
What happens with the remaining 25% of the profit/revenue/assets.
That is quite material to the group?
November 14, 2012 at 5:56 pm
@despina, Which question are you talking about?
November 15, 2012 at 9:58 am
@despina, First I must say the lecture is great. Thanks
I got a bit confused right at the end or the lecture. Reporting disimilar activities. The lecture ends with preparing group accounts until we reach minimum 75% of the profits or revenue or assets for the group. I would thing the remaining 25% is material to the qroup and has to be reported also?
November 15, 2012 at 10:41 am
@despina, I believe this has nothing to do with group accounts – this is segmental reporting.
the remaining <25% is shown as "the remainder" so no attempt is made to disaggregate the figure
October 15, 2012 at 3:40 am
For situaion of holding less than 1/2—-does the parent still prepare consolidated statements?
October 15, 2012 at 6:27 am
@nigs001, Only if they have ( effective ) control.
Control is the key so, even though the parent may own MORE than half the votes, if they no longer have control ( eg the subsidiary is in liquidation and therefore the liquidator controls it ) then the parent will not consolidate.
Under the new IFRSs, where a parent has effective control, then they should consolidate. So, if the parent owns say 40% of the voting power of the subsidiary and the remaining 60% is spread out over many other shareholders, then the parent has effective control.
Steve Scott is not likely to ask this in a numerical part of question 1 but could ask it within the ( say ) 5 mark written part b
September 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm
that was a good lecture .Thank you very much .I believe in open tuition
September 4, 2012 at 11:10 am
it is quite perfect because the lecturers are knowledgeable
May 24, 2012 at 6:17 am
I agree, I was struggling and a co-worker told me about the site and I can say I am very grateful for the assistance, it brings clarity
May 10, 2012 at 11:27 am
May 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm
thank you so much May God Bless you and the administration 🙂 Amen.
April 8, 2012 at 11:23 pm
Very Good Lecture. Thanks.
March 28, 2012 at 5:27 pm
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