This topic contains 570 replies, has 119 voices, and was last updated by 
GillianM – OBU Registered Mentor 4 weeks ago.
- Posts
- November 6, 2017 at 2:40 pm
@bigbig While you wait for Trephena’s response, perhaps rule no.4 might help you. It says
Each different document referred to must have its own unique designator If for example you are using several different articles from the same newspaper in the same year you MUST distinguish between the various articles. You do this by using ‘appendages’ added to the year e.g. 2015(a), 2015(b) 2015(c). If during the course of your work you refer to the same document more than once then you should always use the same designator as used previously (so do not change it to a different appendage from the one given originally).
If you google havard referencing multiple works by same author same year it will give the same advice. I hope this helps a bit.
November 6, 2017 at 9:01 pm@alejandra Thanks for answering my questions.
Please correct me if I am wrong. For example, M&S published annual report, press and conference presentation in 2016. Do I show (M&S, 2016(a)), (M&S, 2016(b)) and (M&S, 2016(c)) when I cite in the text, then I put full details in the list, for example M&S, 2016(a). annual report. [Online]. Available at: URL (Accessed: date)? Am I correct in saying that?
In addition, is it recommended to show reference list in the same work document as RAP or in a separate one?
Many thanks.
November 6, 2017 at 10:00 pmYes: the three different documents will have different letters. (M&S, 2016a) (M&S, 2016b) etc
Yes in the reference list you put the full details of what the document is.
I also hope that you understood the part where she says a document needs only appear once in the reference list (for example, even if you cite the 2016 annual report 20 times in-text in the reference list it must appear once)
This site might help you. https://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm on how to cite other documents.
Trephena says the key is consistency.
The reference list should be a seperate file. See page 65 of the information pack which tells us what to upload and in which format we must do it.
P.S. I am also a student like you. So please verify everything I tell you.
November 6, 2017 at 10:15 pm@alejandra, Many thanks for your reply. I am now much clearer, good luck to your project 🙂
November 7, 2017 at 2:40 amPlease can anyone advise step by step or send a link i can follow .I am unable to arrange my reference list alphabetically.
secondly if we quote from the annual report is it enough to say like M&S ,2015 or i have to say( M&S Annual Report ,2015)November 7, 2017 at 8:02 amWell done alejandra – I couldn’t have answered it better myself (so top of the class and a gold star!) 😀
If anyone cans answer about the arranging alphabetically query please do! (The only sure way I know is cutting and pasting – it is time consuming however. But then having done a Reference list for my Masters that was 11 pages long in the days BEFORE being able to do the entries via an automated method where everything had to be entered manually was really hard work so by comparison a bit of final cut and paste sounds a synch!)
M&S 2015 is fine in the text as long as this is the only 2015 document you are citing – otherwise please read the Golden Rules (No. 4 cited above by alejandra) from the Open Tuition Ultimate Guide to Referencing your RAP -see our homepage http://www.opentuition.com/obu
for the full version of this.November 7, 2017 at 8:44 am@saifuddin please can you tell me which one did u use , citethisforme ?Does it arrange it alphabetically too .
please guide me .I failed last time too only because of referencing .November 7, 2017 at 1:13 pm@erumrk, the way I sort the list alphabrtically is by adding a line between each reference, and then the list theoretically has several paragraphs, after that, you can sort it by paragraph.
I hope this is helpful.
November 8, 2017 at 4:26 am@erumrk
I just started referencing …and I have no idea about how to do it alphabetically. I asked in another forum for help.November 8, 2017 at 8:16 pmThanks @bigbig ,I worked it out on the same lines and paragraphing is key ,then word sorts it out .
November 10, 2017 at 1:39 pmIn the reference list, how do we deal with the full name of the abbreviated in-text citation. Is it Harvard to do it as below? I searched high and low and couldn’t find consistent advice. Most started with the full term which would be inconsitent with in-text.
FRC [Financial Reporting Council] (2016). The UK Corporate Governance Code. London: The Financial Reporting Council Limited. Available at: <website address>
November 10, 2017 at 2:38 pmHi All,
I need some advice regarding OBU submission.
I am planning to submit OBU thesis in current submission which will be close in 5 days. I have already wrote my thesis but its not final yet and making final changes as my mentor suggested me.
But the problem is this is my last and final attempt for OBU submission and I am submitting thesis on GSK as my main company and AstraZeneca as its competitor. Both companies have different presentation currencies. GSK presentation currency is GBP and AstraZeneca presentation currency is USD.
What I basically did in my ratio analysis I have taken USD translated FS of GSK and compare it with audited and I found no differences therefore I calculated my ratios for GSK on the basis of translated FS.
But I was reading some comments here in the forum in which it is mentioned that translated FS should not be used for RAP instead published FS should be used as ratio analysis eradicate the need of translated FS. However, in my analysis, at some places I had to mention exchange rate fluctuation as a reason for fluctuation in ratios because I used translated FS.
This made me confused at the last moment and it seems that my thesis will not going to pass in this final attempt because I should have use published FS and just need to translate share price at year end rate for competitor.
Please advise me what should I do now. Should I submit with translated FS ratio analysis or should I try to change all the ratios and try to make changes in my thesis by using published FS then submit if I will be able to incorporate all changes before deadline?
Early advice would really help me.
.November 10, 2017 at 10:49 pmIf you don’t have time to change things completely then you will have to stick with most of what you have got I suppose and try to make the best of a bad job – I suggest in the analysis you try to play down currency fluctuations and try to remove some of the obvious anomalies.
So in a nutshell, try to appreciate the issues you may currently have and try to deal with the worst areas in the short time you have left.
Remember currency fluctuations will not have impacted much on GSK’s UK sales but by translating them into USD and then comparing them your will have introduced a difference that does not really exist for some of the sales figures (if UK sales are significant then this issue is more serious than where most of the sales are made overseas).
The main issue comes in the trends. With elements like debtor and payable days using different currency rates for each year means that changes in your trends are not necessarily due to any improvements by management (or conversely anything they have done wrong) but could just be a consequence of the forex rate used for each year (similarly with inventory). This in term may impact on the current ratio. Although debt to equity for one year should be OK again making comparisons year on year are unsound and between companies because of the forex.
You said this is your final attempt – do you mean it is submission no. 3 or you have reached the 10 year limit, or both? If you can submit in P36 within the rules I would actually suggest you rework the lot and resubmit next May as that way you would have time to improve it. As long as your previous attempt was on the same company you will not have to go for one of the new sector companies introduced for P35 and P36 as you do not have to resubmit straightaway.
Generally though students need to recognise that ratio analysis obviates the need for currency translation as you are comparing ratio with ratio (therefore the actual currency behind each is irrelevant) however by translating currencies and then turning them into ratios you introduce artificial differences which could merely be because of the currency fluctuations when doing comparisons.
November 11, 2017 at 12:52 amHi,
When there is no date of the work, we put n.d., but how about the same author published some works that do not have date, do we still add a,b,c…, e.g. n.d.a, n.d.b? I am wondering if it is correct because it looks strange.
Many thanks.
November 11, 2017 at 8:53 amThe fact is the reader needs to be able to match a comment made in the text to the source of the comment via the list. It may look strange but it does the job. Remember too as I point out in the article on Referencing, for the RAP perfection is not required but appreciation of the basic rules is expected. I would suggest leaving a gap between the n.d. and the suffix/appendage e.g. n.d. b – then it looks slightly less odd!
November 11, 2017 at 3:03 pmThank you for your reply.
Yes I made a mistake… I have already known this fact that ratios eradicate the need of currency translation but during the preparation of RAP it did not click into my mind and neither my mentor pointed out to me this common error.
This is my third and final attempt of OBU plus I am not sure about whether I have reached the 10 year limit or not. I already emailed ACCA for this. I checked my ACCA account I was granted first exemption in June 2008 so I am assuming my 10 years will be completed in May 2018.
But for now I have to wait for ACCA confirmation regarding the last session of OBU meanwhile I have to work on my RAP to prepare it to the standard I can pass it.
I have three questions, kindly answer them at your earliest:
1- I was reading the GSK FS and in the FS GSK’s CFO provided financial analysis, if in that analysis the reasons for fluctuation of various FS line items were mentioned for example “due to exchange rate fluctuation” then how can I provide a different reason other than provided in the published FS?
2- Reasons for fluctuation in FS line items like trade receivables, inventories, cost of sales, trade payables, short term borrowing and long term borrowing are very difficult to get from external sources so for those should I refer to reasons provided in published FS? or should I try to make indirect connections like sales increased due to XYZ reasons (i.e. with external reference) therefore trade receivables also increased?
3- Is it prohibited to refer to published FS for reasons of fluctuation? If yes, then if I am unable to find reasons for fluctuation from external sources then what should I do?
Thank you again for answering my queries. You are of real help.
November 11, 2017 at 10:02 pm1. Ok if the COD cites this reason who am I to argue? So use his quotation to justify this
2. Yes external commentators rarely comment on aspects of the current ratio. It is difficult for me to comment with authority without a study of the company but yes an emphasis on the inter-connectedness of the ratios with revenue is more reliable than the year on year trends if the currency rates have been subject to volatitily (where currency rates are stable there is less of a problem)
3. I am not entirely sure what you mean. Currency fluctuation comments from analysts are more likely to be reliable and where a company operates globally there will always be an element of this. What I was (trying to say is that when you are analysing cash and liquidity items be aware that year on year comparisons and direct comparisons with another company may not be so reliable as you have taken their financial results (elements of which such as overseas sales may have already been translated) and you are restranslating them.
All is not lost ‘re your P35 submission – the markers tend to be slightly kinder with a 3rd and final submission -that does not mean they will pass it – however if you have complied with the previous feedback and made a reasonable attempt they will not be quite so critical so the chance of a pass is a bit better
November 11, 2017 at 10:40 pmTrephena… Thank you for your clarification… its of real help…
Can you please clarify on your first answer… What I understand from your answer is if in the analysis provided in FS by CFO, it is mentioned that fluctuation was mainly due to exchange rate fluctuation or XYZ reason, then I just need to cite that in my RAP with reference to annual report… Am I understand your point rightly?
To clarify my question no: 3… I just want to know whether I can refer to analysis provided in published FS in my RAP? specially when I won’t be able to find the reason for fluctuation from external sources?
Further… due to having different presentation currencies… I had to translate the share price… I translated share price from LSE in USD by using year end rates provided in published FS of the company… Did I do it right? and should I mention in my reasons that share price fluctuated partly due to exchange rate fluctuation and partly due to XYZ (i.e. external reference) reason? How can I minimize my risk of failure in this case?
I am trying to address maximum failure points raised by the moderator but from my past two experiences what I understand is OBU marker are quite strict and failed due to small errors… Therefore I am quite wary in this attempt and want to cover my risk of failure from maximum possible aspects…
I hope and pray that I can manage to pass this time!
I really appreciate your efforts trephena to help me minimizing my risk of failure this time…
November 12, 2017 at 3:15 pmThe answer to your first question is that if you quote and refer the reader to the appropriate citation from the CFO it should be fine.
Yes you can refer the reader to the financial statements as long as you have other sources in other places of your RAP.
with the share price it is earnings relative to price of share, dividend cover and yield. All of these are best looked at in the actual currency used by the company and the stock exchange it is listed on and THEN comparisons can be made using the RATIOS with the competitor. There really should be no need to have to translate currencies upfront as it does not result in an accurate basis for comparisons or trends
To minimise your chances of failure overall ensure (1) accurate referencing (if in doubt consult our referencing guide) (2) that there are clear links between the business and financial analyses and that the former has not been done as an isolated exercise i.e. the reader wants examples of how the strengths and opportunities have influenced management strategic decisions and HOW these decisions have impacted on the financial results in your financial analysis and (3) present clear graphs fully labelled and don’t repeat numbers and percentages in the text unnecessarily
November 12, 2017 at 3:47 pmThank you or your help and answering my queries…
Regarding your clarification on translation of share price… I am still not very much clear… For P/E ratio and dividend yield ratio… I needed to translate it into USD because my complete analysis is in USD… I want to understand that did I do it right by translating the share price from London Stock Exchange into USD to calculate aforementioned ratios using year end exchange rates from published FS… Further, if I translate the share price then exchange rate fluctuation has impact in fluctuation of share price then should I mention the in my reason that share price fluctuated partly due to exchange rate fluctuation…
Can you please clarify that if I have given one reason of fluctuation from external reference in my research report somewhere then if I needed to give the same reason somewhere else in my research report then is it possible for me to refer the reader to the place in my research report where I have discussed that reason in detail? or should I repeat the whole reason with external reference? Basically, I am facing problem in reducing my word count which has reached to 8400 words and I am trying hard to reduce word count. I realized that I have repeated few reasons with external references unnecessarily which resulted in increase in my word count… If I just mentioned the reference of the place in research report where I have discussed that reason in detail then it will greatly help me in reducing my word count…
Further… I am working on your advice to remove currency fluctuation from my research report and try to use GBP published FS for GSK and USD published FS for AstraZeneca… Hopefully tonight I will be able to amend my complete RAP accordingly…
Trephena… sorry I am asking too much questions but I hope you understand the problem in which I am stuck right now and your advise can help me escape this situation…
November 12, 2017 at 5:26 pmHey everyone,
I have a few questions in regards to referencing, mainly related to the annual reports, it would be great if anyone can clarify a few points;
1) I’ve referenced all annual reports multiple times in this format i.e (ABC Annual Report 2014, pg 7). is this correct? and when referencing an Annual Report more than once from the same year should we add letters after the year? Also what if we reference the same page (FS) more than once?
2) How should we reference the Annual Report under ‘list of references’, do we have to add every page we referenced?
3) What exactly can we reference back to the appendix and how should that be done?
Thanks.
November 13, 2017 at 1:19 amHaroonsheikh – that’s the point – you didn’t need to translate share information at all, it just does not make sense: GSK’s shares have a nominal value expressed in GBP, they are listed on the LSE in GBP, the company declares a dividend in GBP, the company reports in GBP – so correct the section on shares. It is immaterial whether you used the closing rate, average rate or whatever rate to translate them as they shouldn’t be translated at all. It is true however that as the GBP Pound has fallen share prices on the LSE have risen – this is because foreign investors could buy them more cheaply and saw them as a good investment and the economic rule of supply and demand subsequently pushed the price up giving a quick profit.
Every statement of fact or source must be referenced each time. If you have a problem with word count do some serious editing in parts 1 and 2 and cut out all the unnecessary words. Also as I said previously if a graph shows the position you do not have to keep stating in the text what it shows (I actually saw some student feedback from a marker that said “please do not repeat in the text what you have just shown me in the graph as I am capable of understanding graphs and charts”). So many words are often wasted on unnecessary repetition.
November 13, 2017 at 8:43 amomz86 – you need to refer to the Golden Rules and think about Rules 4, 7 and 8 and put the advice altogether distinguishing between text and list:
8. Items in the LIST should appear once and only once. Although you may cite from the same DOCUMENT numerous times in your text, it must have ONLY ONE entry when put in the LIST.
4. Each DOCUMENT referred to must have its own unique designator
7. The information provided in the TEXT should be sufficient to locate the exact document
This means that a page number would only appear in the list if the DOCUMENT is only used once in the whole work -otherwise the page number appears just in the TEXT of the report so that then Rule 8 is complied with.
An extension of Rule 4 is “If during the course of your work you refer to the same document more than once then you should always use the same designator as used previously (so do not change it to a different appendage from the one given originally)” – in this sense the same page is the same document and different pages within the same annual report,are the same document so ALL would have the same designator just some page numbers would vary in the TEXT
Referencing to the Appendices is more correctly called ‘cross-referencing’ where you refer the reader to your WORKINGS. The workings themselves should show the source e.g. Annual report or in the case of primary data author’s own work.
November 13, 2017 at 10:25 amThank you for your clarification… I understand your point in case of GSK in relation to translation of share price… But in case of AstraZeneca I need to translate the share price in USD because EPS in cents and dividend in USD therefore to calculate P/E and dividend yield ratio I need to translate share price into USD using year end exchange rate… Is my understanding correct?
Further… my part 1 and part 2 almost reach 2000 words so do I need to further reduce it? I heard that there is a minimum word count limit for part 1 and part 2 which is 2000 words so if I am going to reduce words from part 1 and part 2 then I might breach the minimum word count limit of part 1 and part 2… I am going to remove the repetition from my ratio analysis but I believe it will reduce maximum 300 to 400 words therefore it seems that I may need to remove some facts and information from my analysis… which I don’t want…
Can you please clarify if for example EPS is increasing due to increase in Profit After Tax and the reason of increase in profit after tax has already been discussed in Net Profit Margin then can I refer the reason for increase in Profit After Tax to Net Profit Margin in EPS analysis? Or I have to state the same reason again in EPS as well with external reference?
Thank you for your help so far Trephena…
November 13, 2017 at 11:27 amAll share price information should be kept in the currency the company reports in whether it is GBP, USD or PKR. It should be used to calculate ratios and these ratios can then be compared with each other regardless of what currency lies behind them. It is not set in stone what rate you would use for share price but year end rate would be used for investments. Earnings however being a P &L item would be average rate I think so already there would be a problem of mismatched rates (another good reason to justify not using translations in the first place)
There is no MINIMUM number of words just a recommended MAXIMUM. As most of the value in the report comes from the analysis and evaluation, this should be given priority when it comes to word count.
You can restate the reason but try as well to bring out and relate it to the fact that a specific strategy by management has led to the improvement if possible .
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
