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Agree with Latoyah lot’s of overlap between P2 and P7. I did both at the same time and it worked out very well.
If you look at it that in P2 you are putting together the accounts and in P7 auditing them, you can see the overlap. In P7 the only core knowledge you need is the rules relating to the accounting standards.
I did not find P7 complex at all, but then I work in a professional environment (though Law rather than Accountancy) and so all the other areas you need to know are things I encounter in my day to day work (money laundering for example).
A lot of overlap with P3 and P5 as well, though I know you said you are doing P4. something to consider if you are not fixed on P4.
I passed my exams before the March/Sept exams were available, but if they were I think I would do one a sitting with for example P2 followed by P7 whilst it is still fresh.
The only exam I took on it’s own was P5 (my last exam). I had taken F5 ages before and P3 about a year so had to go over a lot of old notes at the start. But I could afford to do that as I was only taking the one exam.
Don’t give up hope yet. Last sitting they raised the marks on a number of papers so you might be lucky.
With regards all 49’s actually there is more chance of that than all 39’s for example. The reason being that when you get 46+ they will remark and try and squeeze a couple more marks for you. So originally your three papers might have been 46/47/48 and after remarking you got a few more marks in each but not quite enough to take you over the 50.
Gabriel
Why are you taken what Elia says as correct? He said the same rubbish last time, convinced me I had failed, and I had passed.
I get my membership paid each year.
In addition before I started the exams the firm agreed the following:
1) To pay for the full course fee with LSBF covering all 14 exams = roughly £5500. This covered evening classes, materials and the online interactive study. However it did not include any revision, which I was led to believe by LSBF that it did.
I am also now entitled to a free MBA which I intend starting in September.
Over the next two years I had to repay back 25% via salary sacrifice.
2) All exams paid.
3) 1 1/2 days per exam study leave. So in affect 21 days over the whole of my studies.I had to pay for any exam fees if I had to retake. I also had to pay for any revision courses.
I am now tied in to my firm to pay back all they have paid if I leave within a certain period. However, in reality I suspect that will be negotiable.
I took my last exam (P5) in the Dec sitting. I followed the links and if I had listened to the people on here I would have failed.
I spent the last week before the results convinced the people on here were correct and started prepping for re-sitting in June.
Instead I passed!
So please do not get all upset by people on here saying if you don’t see pink fluffy clouds with your name in lights with the word Associate, you have failed. They could well be wrong like they were for me.
As latoyah said. Best fit for P2 is P7 as you need to know the standards for both. In P2 you will be expecting to calculate using the standards and P7 you will need to know that the calculations you are auditing have correctly used the standards.
The other good fit if you want to do two exams is P3 and P5 – but don’t get me started on the P5 examiner!
I can help on a couple.
London – ExCel
Huge arena and I thought a horrible venue. Wobbly tables, lots of noise and in winter I thought cold.
The DLR station Custom house is right next to it.London – South East
Various venues. I mainly took exams at two – Brixton and Balham (so really South West London) however my final exam in Dec 2014 I took in Charlton.
Brixton – sports hall. Next to Brixton train and 5 minute walk from Brixton tube. Venue ok.
Balham – Held at a place called the Memon centre. Very nice venue with comfortable chairs. About 10 minutes walk from Balham tube/train.
Charlton Athletic Football ground – About 5-10 minutes walk from Charlton train station. The venue is the members bar and you get a nice view of the pitch. Could be a bit off putting if you are a football fan and the players were training at the time of the exam (not the case when I took my exam). Nice chairs and tables.
Hope that helps.
Can’t comment on P4 as I did not study it.
Regarding P7. How long ago did you do F8 and how well did you pass? If it was recently and you got a good mark you would have a chance as there is very little new knowledge.
In addition most of the new knowledge (other than knowing all the standards learnt in P2) you may already know depending on where you currently work. For example if you work in a Professional practice like Accountants/Law firm you will have encountered things like Money Laundering, liability insurance etc.
In addition P7 is all about learning the technique of how to answer. There may still be some revision courses that could teach you that technique.
If none of the above apply I would not bother. You will only fail and more likely get a bad mark that will put you off in future.
Even If you do no study and manage a reasonable mark but still fail i.e. high 30’s low 40’s you may be inclined to not try very hard next time and then fail again.
If you look on the ACCA website under pass rates you will see all the pass marks for each exam going back to 2007. If you stick them in a spreadsheet you will get the average.
I thought doing any P paper in any order only came in with the September sittings – did ACCA change it?
As for your question, I did both together. There is a lot of overlap and I found it very helpful to do both together.
If you look at it that you need to understand the standards in order to do the calculation (or just discuss) in P2, it naturally follows that if you understand various IAS then it makes it easier to then know what to look out for when you are auditing them in P7.
That is interesting girlfriday.
I know my lecturer for P2 also acts as a marker. Who told me that the P2 lecturer has been setting exams for ACCA for years and over the years has got a bit bored covering the basics and so adds more and more complex stuff.
However, from time to time this means that
a) An exam question is harder than the examiner meant it to be
b) he trips himself up covering obscure parts of the standards.When he trips himself up it takes some of the markers to point it out – this may be the case with you. After consultation with some of the markers, they have raised an issue and the examiner has agreed a credit for a different answer can be given.
I seem to remember in June 2014, after the official answers came out, a day later they were withdrawn and then republished a few days later – can’t remember if any adjustment was made.
Thanks adeyemi83 I have tried reasoning with them to no avail.
Apparently the system was changed to challenge questions in 2009 two years after I joined and they moved it to online only in 2013.
In theory the original application I used when I joined in 2007 should have worked. However, they appear to have lost my original application and so cannot confirm. They cannot even look back to last week to see that I had the objectives signed off on my status report.
They did say that if I had printed out a copy of my status report showing objectives met, then they may reconsider. But I had not printed it out as I had no reason to.
So I’ve spent the last couple of days filling in my 3900 minimum words to complete the objectives. I managed to convince an Accountant in our head office in the US to sign off and now it is being looked at by the admissions team and I’m expecting a call in the next couple of hours.
I’ve said this previously. If ACCA were confident of their marking, for £52 they should send you a scan of your paper along with the markings instead of the rubbish they currently e-mail you.
Then if you felt you had been marked down you could apply for a proper review stating why you think you had been marked down.
Mentioned this on a previous thread – hope someone can help.
I’m in the same position as mul1982 – I had all my objectives completed from when I joined ACCA 7 years ago. I presume because of what I completed when I joined. I know the firm I was with at the time had their Auditors draft something confirming my work experience.
I was not aware that the system appears to have changed and you now need to answer these challenge questions. I was only made aware when I applied for membership and was told I had to complete the PER and saw everything had been reset to “not completed”.
When I called ACCA it was like talking to the character on Little Briton “computer say’s no” as that was pretty much the response I got, other than to say they did not have my initial joining application. Presume they had lost it.
I would not say it is unethical more like unprofessional.
As for the suggestions just fill in the questions. I have done that but a) it was a lot of work (minimum of 3900 words spread over all the objectives. b) I do not have an Accountant at my current office who can sign me off and our Auditors are all Chartered Accountants and seem to have a bit of snobbery dealing with ACCA. So are reluctant to get involved.
Can I add, this question highlights the problems people have with this examiner.
Q1 (ii) has two parts to it:
a) “justify appropriate management approaches to each stakeholder”.
b) “based on this analysis evaluate the appropriateness of the performance measures suggested”Regarding part a) The examiner has confused things by including medium levels of interest for some of the stakeholders. Now I know there are Mendelow matrix that have low, medium and high. But normally they only have low or high.
In addition some stakeholders were split i.e. employees had a group of key employees.
In addition as the question had evaluate in it (albeit in relation to the performance measures) it would be very easy under exam conditions to evaluate the actual position of the various stakeholders. i.e. have they been mapped correctly.
As debs4521 has pointed out the examiners actual answers are rather bland and simply repeat what is stated in the exam qyestion.
For the second part he awards up to 10 marks for the 5 points. Presume 2 per point. Looking at his answers four cover shareholders, that is up to 8 marks for one basic paragraph!
He also has a paragraph criticizing the lack of a measurement for customers – but that is not what was asked. We were asked to “evaluate the appropriateness of the performance measures suggested” he really should make his questions clearer.
It even says within the scenario specifically “do not, at this stage, suggest long lists of additional indicators” as the examiner has done in his answer!
Thanks for the reply marky123
I have never attempted the challenge question because I thought I had already passed all the essential and 7 options. I am presuming because 7 years ago when I applied for membership I also sent the work details along with confirmation from my previous firm’s accountants.
Does anyone know when they brought in the challenge questions? Also can someone remember how it was in the past?
ACCA has told me they have lost my original joining paperwork, so cannot confirm what was originally sent. I suspect it is not a case of being time dated, as it has only been reset after I applied for membership.
Icedawn I agree they should not lower the difficulty. However, you have to concede that since this new examiner has been put in place the pass rate has plummeted. Why is this?
Firstly, it is a change in style from being 70% calculations and 30% comment on those calculations to being provided with most of the calculations and expecting to comment. This makes it a words rather than numbers paper and most of the ACCA students are international with English as a second language.
Secondly and more important (I actually agree with the change in style) it is the presentation of the exam in particular the examiner’s requirements.
For such complex questions he is not clear and mixes part of the requirements within the scenario (see q1 Dec 2014). In addition he awards marks for things that were not even asked Q4 Dec 2014 so it is very hard to judge how to plan answers particularly under exam conditions.
You should be marked on your knowledge and skills in the subjects involved in this Paper and not how best to understand what the examiner is wanting from you.
Just in case you think my reply is sour grapes for failing. I passed Dec 2014 at my first attempt.
Can anyone help me?
I have 30 years of work experience and signed up to ACCA 7 years ago with my previous firm. I cannot remember exactly what was involved at the time I signed up, but my previous firms auditors were involved in some way.
I moved jobs 6 years ago and started actual study of the exams 4 years ago. In all this time my PER has been marked 9 out of 9 essentials and 7 out of 11 options achieved. I therefore presumed with all my relevant experience I only needed to pass the exams and the Ethics module that I have now done.
On Monday my status report showed everything ticked off and I applied for membership.
Yesterday, I got an e-mail saying I had not asked the challenge questions and to complete them. When I looked at the status report all my PER had been reset to not achieved! Speaking to ACCA was a waste of time – I had more success talking to HMRC. They just kept repeating that my PER was not signed off, ignoring that it has been marked achieved for the last 7 years.
My current firm has no Accountants who can sign it off and our current Auditors are refusing to, as they say they have not been involved in my training. Not that I need any training after 30 years!
I said it at the time and when the examiner produced his answers.
If you just look at the subjects included in the paper there was nothing particularly hard.
However, the examiner does not make his requirements clear and the marking allocation is unfathomable.
I’ve just had a look at the Examiner’s report and it appears to have been written by committee with “we would like” and “our aim”. If the paper was set by committee that could explain why things are so confused!
These were my two options.
Of all the options these two have the least “knowledge” requirement. However, they also have the worst pass rates as well!
There is no overlap to these two papers. At a push, there is a chance in P7 that you have to look at Business risks and you do need to consider risk in P5. That is about it.
Both have the most written content so if English is not your first language you may have some problems.
P7 examiner is very clear in requirements. Covers all the main areas and it is a case of learning the correct techniques. Once you have mastered that (I did not think it was that hard) it is just a case of spotting the requirements within the scenario and applying those techniques.
P5 examiner is very unclear in requirements. Covers obscure areas of the syllabus and likes to try and trip you up. The hardest part of the exam is not learning the models and how to apply them but understanding exactly what the examiner is asking for.
Passed with 52% was expecting a little higher but more than happy that I’m done with exams
Good question.
Having an understanding wife helps!
I signed up with LSBF in Nov 2010 with my first classes set for F1 starting Jan 2011. My wife told me she was pregnant Dec 2010!
Generally I have been taking 2 subjects at a time.
With the live sessions at LSBF you have a choice of Evenings and Weekends. For the P levels I found it much better to do weekends. Over a 2 1/2 month period you would have 4/5 full days rather than 8/10 regular nights and for me seemed more manageable.
In addition you have the online videos that I tended to watch after I had put my daughter to bed.
Being a more mature student I think I do have the advantage of a lot of relevant work experience to help me. So I have not struggled with the P levels like some. In fact I found P7 one of the easiest exams and got my highest mark because a large part is just how a firm of accountants functions. As I have always worked in Law firms there are a lot of similarities.
This was a couple of days after the results were out.
The point was how did they know I had passed – I study with LSBF and have never used BPP. In addition I had ticked the box for the ACCA not to provide my details to anyone.
Ciju I have just provided one very good reason why I would like to know earlier.
Having said that, all these click on this link and if you see pink fluffy clouds you have passed is not a good way to pass your time. In particular the various posters who claim if you did not see pink fluffy clouds you have failed. They have no way of knowing for certain and should not be stating that.
Like others I am getting so disappointed with the whole of the ACCA and wish I had chosen another Accountancy body. As I said above ACCA have already leaked my details and every exam sitting there appears to be computer errors, email leaks.
In addition we suffer from badly laid out exams which cause poor pass rates and finally large delays between taking exams and getting results.
Now finally I see on the only forum available to us my fellow students insulting each other it’s really not the kind of professional body I want to be a part off.