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Dividends from Associate and Subsidiaries [ Consolidated SOFP and P/L ]

Forums › Ask ACCA Tutor Forums › Ask the Tutor ACCA SBR Exams › Dividends from Associate and Subsidiaries [ Consolidated SOFP and P/L ]

  • This topic has 50 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Stephen Widberg.
Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 51 total)
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  • June 5, 2015 at 6:36 pm #254039
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    That’s exactly what it means – it’s the figure for retained earnings that you would see if you looked in the parent’s own accounting records

    June 6, 2015 at 2:17 am #254265
    chericheung
    Member
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 11
    • ☆

    But here come a question. We are doing the consolidation, aren’t we? While consolidated, dividend from subsidiary n associate should be cancelled out to avoid double accounting. But in this question, dividend from Hail was still in group statement, purely transferring from OCI to Retained Earning. I don’t really understand this point. Where do I make a mistake?

    June 6, 2015 at 9:26 am #254392
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    You cannot simply forget the fact that dividends have been paid. The paying company should record the payment in their own records and the receiving company should record the receipt in their records.

    So the retained earnings figures for both companies will be affected. The RE of the payer will decrease and the RE of the receiver will increase.

    These entries are NOT cancelled

    What IS cancelled is the dividends in the statement of profit or loss. The investment income received by the parent from the subsidiaries and associates is not included in the consolidated investment income figure

    The dividend paid will not be shown within any statement of profit or loss, neither in the subsidiary nor in the associate because the payment is recorded as a movement within statement of changes in equity – it’s not shown as an expense

    I’m not sure whether this answers your question or not. If it doesn’t, post again

    June 6, 2015 at 3:39 pm #254523
    chericheung
    Member
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 11
    • ☆

    Feel better. Why transfer the dividend from OCI to Retain earnings?

    June 6, 2015 at 10:52 pm #254629
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Which question Cheri?

    August 5, 2015 at 6:28 am #265570
    arek28
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 5
    • ☆

    Hi Mike,

    Sorry i’m still confused.

    Could you please assist to show the entries in both parent/subsidiary when:
    – Subsidiary declares dividend payable to Parent
    – Subsidiary pays cash dividend to Parent

    thank you in advance

    August 5, 2015 at 8:45 am #265595
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    In subsidiary records, Dr Retained Earnings Cr Dividend Payable

    In parent records, Dr Dividend Receivable Cr Investment Income

    In subsidiary records, Dr Dividend Payable Cr Cash

    In parent records, Dr Cash Cr Dividend Receivable

    Ok?

    August 5, 2015 at 8:58 am #265599
    arek28
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 5
    • ☆

    @mikelittle said:
    In subsidiary records, Dr Retained Earnings Cr Dividend Payable

    In parent records, Dr Dividend Receivable Cr Investment Income

    In subsidiary records, Dr Dividend Payable Cr Cash

    In parent records, Dr Cash Cr Dividend Receivable

    Ok?

    Hello Mike,

    Thank you for your fast reply.

    Could you please explain more about the “Investment Income” account? Where is this account located in the Balance sheet?

    August 5, 2015 at 9:13 am #265600
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    It’s an income account!

    Before the recent changes in nomenclature, the “statement of profit or loss” was called the “statement of income” and before that it was a “statement of income and expense”

    Now, there’s a bit of a clue in those two previous titles as to the sort of matters that are included in that statement!

    What makes you think that Investment Income will feature in a statement of financial position?

    August 5, 2015 at 10:28 am #265617
    arek28
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 5
    • ☆

    Pardon my ignorance on this matter… i read in the previous posts that the dividend should be ignored to avoid double counting the income…

    So what you’re saying is that the dividend income recognized by the parent company should be posted as “Investment Income” in the P&L Statement? How can we avoid the double counting?

    August 5, 2015 at 10:49 am #265620
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    There are three sets of financial statements involved here! The parent’s, the subsidiary’s and the consolidated statements.

    Throughout the entire year the parent and the subsidiary will be following normal straight forward double entry principles and will be debiting and crediting in a way that Fra Luca Pacioli would be proud of.

    In the parent, their bookkeeper will debit Cash and credit an account called Investment Income with the dividend received by the parent from the subsidiary

    At the same time, the subbookkeeper (the only word in the English language with 4 consecutive double letters!) at the subsidiary will debit Dividends Paid and credit Cash

    And then comes the year end and head honcho at the parent says to your pal,the newly qualified ACCA chief financial officer “Don’t we need to be preparing a set of group accounts?” and newly qualified looks a bit sheepish and says “Yes, I suppose so. I’ll try”

    All goes well until CFO reaches Investment Income in the parent’s statement of income. “What to do with that income that we received from the subsidiary?”. So CFO phones you up and says “Arek, what should I do with the dividend that my head office company received from the subsidiary?”

    And you reply “Ignore it! Simply don’t include it within the consolidated Investment Income figure. That dividend is an appropriation of this year’s profit after tax of the subsidiary and you should have consolidated all the subsidiary figures that are involved in calculating that profit after tax.

    Do you see that, if you include that dividend as consolidated investment income, you would be double counting!”

    And your pal, the CFO of the parent company says to you “Oh Arek. That is so obvious and yet I’ve always had a problem with that concept. Thank you so much, and say “Hi” to your mum and dad”

    And you are the hero that saved the World from the dangers of double counting the dividend received from the subsidiary

    (You consolidate the subsidiary’s revenue, cost of sales, administrative expenses, distribution costs, finance charges, finance income and taxation. So can you accept that you have consolidated the subsidiary’s profit after tax? And it’s from that subsidiary profit after tax that the subsidiary pays a dividend to the parent? To include that dividend within consolidated investment income is to double count!)

    Better?

    August 6, 2015 at 10:21 am #265848
    arek28
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 5
    • ☆

    Yes Mike, thank you for your clear explanation…

    August 6, 2015 at 11:09 am #265854
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    You’re welcome

    August 12, 2015 at 7:35 pm #266965
    Richard
    Member
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 6
    • ☆

    Hi Mike

    As per Jun 12 exam.

    Facts in scenario:
    – Puttin is an Associate of Minny.
    – Minny holds Puttin at FV through OCI as per IFRS9.
    – Minny pays a 2m dividend to Puttin, which is wrongly credited to OCI.
    – The investment in associate in Puttin’s books is 48m and 50.5m in the consolidated books.

    Please could you explain a bit further why it is incorrect for the dividend payment to be credited to OCI and should rather, be credited to profit and loss for the year?

    The solution mentions this is because Puttin is not impaired as 48<50 and also that the dividend does not exceed TCI for the period it was declared.
    This is a point I am failing to grasp, if you could please simplify.

    Thanks

    August 12, 2015 at 10:41 pm #266990
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Hi Richard

    Please, do me a favour and give me a correct exam reference.

    This is not a June 2012 exam question neither for international stream nor for the UK stream – at least, it’s not an exam question according to the past exam papers that I have just checked!

    August 13, 2015 at 6:29 am #267015
    Richard
    Member
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 6
    • ☆

    Mike

    Apologies! I’ve had my fair share of past exam questions open in front of me, lately. The correct reference is P2 December 2012. Question 1. Note 4.

    Thanks for replying.

    August 13, 2015 at 8:15 am #267030
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Hi Richard

    It would never have crossed my mind to put a dividend from an investment into anywhere other than profit or loss!

    I’m not sure why the (non)impairment matter has been included – maybe a bit of exam technique mark grabbing to show that you thought about it and calculated that no impairment was necessary

    Finally, the dividend paid is not greater than this year’s income – if it had been, then the excess would have been coming out of pre-acquisition profits and that excess should then be used as a deduction in the calculation of the cost of the investment

    Does that answer it?

    August 13, 2015 at 8:58 am #267038
    Richard
    Member
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 6
    • ☆

    Mike

    Can I take it as gospel then, that under IFR 9 – all investment income from an investment held at FVTOCI must be taken to P/L?
    I Think that is the learning point I had not properly grasped as I took it to mean that the election to hold an investment at FVTOCI applied to not only valuation gains and losses being recognised in OCI but all related income and expenditure as well, until de-recognition? (what a foolish thing to think, now that I read that back.)

    The point about dividends that exceed current year profits is now clearer.

    Thanks again.

    August 13, 2015 at 9:02 am #267039
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    You’re welcome!

    August 13, 2015 at 9:17 am #267042
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23300
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Read this

    “‘Other comprehensive income’ option
    If an equity investment is not held for trading, an entity can make an irrevocable election at initial recognition to measure it at FVTOCI with only dividend income recognised in profit or loss. [IFRS 9, paragraph 5.7.5]

    August 13, 2015 at 8:39 pm #265612
    arek28
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 5
    • ☆

    Pardon my ignorance on this matter… i read in the previous posts that the dividend should be ignored to avoid double counting the income…

    So what you’re saying is that the dividend income recognized by the parent company should be posted as “Investment Income” in the P&L Statement? How can we avoid the double counting?

    October 25, 2016 at 6:37 pm #346007
    henrysque
    Member
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 1
    • ☆

    @mikelittle said:
    In subsidiary records, Dr Retained Earnings Cr Dividend Payable

    In parent records, Dr Dividend Receivable Cr Investment Income

    In subsidiary records, Dr Dividend Payable Cr Cash

    In parent records, Dr Cash Cr Dividend Receivable

    Ok?

    Hi Mike,
    Really need your help on something.

    Can you please explain to me thoroughly about the Investment in Son/Subsidiaries account?
    When the Son declared dividends, the Parent record Cr Investment in Son.

    And also, when the dividend got paid on the next year (after declared at the end of previous year), what will be the accounting records?

    Thank you so much before Mike!
    Really hope to hear from you soon.

    February 19, 2017 at 5:06 pm #373190
    shifansp
    Member
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 1
    • ☆

    Is it required to adjust dividend from subsidiary in computing net asset of subsidiary at DOA(wn.2) and in Group RE(wn.5).?if no..why?..

    February 19, 2017 at 9:37 pm #373210
    P2-D2
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 7141
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Hi,

    Can you post this question in a new thread please? It isn’t really related to the previous thread.

    Thanks

    August 27, 2020 at 3:27 pm #582339
    mihaifrunza
    Member
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 1
    • ☆

    Hello there,
    Strictly for SOFP, when you consolidate in Retained earnings profits from subsidiary do you consolidate it with including or excluding dividends (50 net profit, 30 after dividends).

    Parent (after receiving dividend of 20)

    Cash +20
    Retained earnings +20
    So i need to add an additional 30 to include the entire profit of 50 made by subsidiary

    Subsidiary (prior to payment of dividend

    Assets 100
    Liabilities 50
    Retained earnings 50

    Subsidiary (post payment)
    Assets 80
    Liabilities 50
    Retained earnings 30

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  • The topic ‘Dividends from Associate and Subsidiaries [ Consolidated SOFP and P/L ]’ is closed to new replies.

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