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ROCE Calculation . Help!

Forums › Ask ACCA Tutor Forums › Ask the Tutor ACCA FR Exams › ROCE Calculation . Help!

  • This topic has 18 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by MikeLittle.
Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • February 16, 2015 at 3:27 pm #228639
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    Dear All

    Hope you can assist me.

    ROCE= pbit/capital employed ( total assets -current liabilities)

    PBIT is equal to operating profit? For example on the Profit and Loss I can find two figures
    1 operating profit
    2 Profit before taxation

    Which one of the above Can i use to calculate ROCE?
    Many thanks
    B

    February 16, 2015 at 4:00 pm #228652
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    PBIT is profit before interest and tax! So take the profit before tax, add back any interest charge, and there you have pbit!

    February 16, 2015 at 6:04 pm #228689
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    Thank you , so it is not the same as operating profit?
    but Operating profit + interest?

    Many thanks?

    February 16, 2015 at 7:28 pm #228709
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    It’s profit before tax (not the same as operating profit) + interest

    February 21, 2015 at 8:50 am #229464
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    Thank you

    Can you clarify one important point:
    For example
    Operating profit £100
    Finance income £5
    Profit on disposal of interest in associates £ 2
    share of after tax profits of associate £3
    PBT £90

    Am I correct to use 90+2 only as a PBIT for the roce?
    Many thanks
    B

    February 21, 2015 at 9:22 am #229466
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    What’s the “2”?

    From the figures you have given I would have thought pbit was 90 (there’s no mention of any finance charge that would need to have been added back)

    February 21, 2015 at 9:41 am #229469
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    I thought it was a form of interest that should be added to the PBT on the ROCE formula.

    Clearly I am still confused. What sort of interest should be added to the profit before tax?

    Thanks

    B

    February 21, 2015 at 9:50 am #229471
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Bank overdraft interest – it will have been deducted in arriving at pbt and now needs to be added back to get to pbit

    Ok?

    February 21, 2015 at 10:46 am #229474
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    Thank you

    February 21, 2015 at 11:08 am #229480
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    You’re welcome

    February 22, 2015 at 11:37 am #229607
    bik123
    Member
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 81
    • ☆☆

    Hi,
    Now I am confused. To get profit before interest and tax how we should treat overdraft interest. Because BPP revision kit in exercise Webster add back to the profit loan interest (which I understand) but overdraft interest is left. So its error in revision kit?

    February 22, 2015 at 11:39 am #229608
    bik123
    Member
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 81
    • ☆☆

    I mean should we add back overdraft interest to profit for the year to get Pbit or not?

    February 22, 2015 at 1:43 pm #229625
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    In real life you won’t be able to separate overdraft interest from loan interest – it will all be shown as “finance charge”

    I’m not personally aware of any directive that says overdraft interest should be dealt with in a different manner than loan interest. I suppose it could depend upon the nature of the overdraft – is it by way of short term working capital or is it by nature long term financing?

    If it’s long term, then treat the interest the same as if the overdraft were a loan.

    If it’s working capital, then don’t add it back – just treat it as an operating expense.

    Does the BPP question Webster push you one way or another?

    February 22, 2015 at 2:45 pm #229638
    bik123
    Member
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 81
    • ☆☆

    Ok. Not only in webster. BPP also in examples in study text do not add back interest on bank overdraft

    February 22, 2015 at 5:30 pm #229651
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I presume that the study text explains why. Would you like to replicate their (probably) one sentence explanation?

    Thanks

    February 23, 2015 at 8:51 am #229757
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    Hi , Looking at the extract below,

    OPERATING PROFIT 850

    Finance income 50
    Finance expense (100)
    Profit on disposal of interest in associates and joint ventures – 100
    – Share of after tax profits of associates and joint ventures 20
    PROFIT BEFORE TAXATION 920

    Is the PBIT for ROCE 920 +100?
    Many thanks
    Barbara

    February 23, 2015 at 9:02 am #229760
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    That’s what I would take – what does the answer do?

    February 23, 2015 at 11:23 am #229793
    barbara2012
    Member
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 44
    • ☆☆

    I can’t find an answer unfortunately.

    February 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm #229801
    MikeLittle
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 27
    • Replies: 23310
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    Pity 🙁

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