Forums › Ask ACCA Tutor Forums › Ask the Tutor ACCA SBR Exams › minny12/12 and trailer 6/13
- This topic has 19 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by MikeLittle.
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- October 20, 2014 at 6:15 pm #205151
for recoverable amounts in the trailer question we used NA “@ R/D is worked out by 2255 + goodwill $80= 2325
minny we used the total assets given in the sofp in the question $1130 +$89 adj + 190 goodwill = 1409
why sometimes use the figure in the sofp in the question and why sometimes we use the na@ r/d worked out in working 2?
perhaps theres something in the question i have not seen or mis read.
thanks
October 21, 2014 at 3:44 pm #205258Kerri, I’m not sure that I understand you here! It seems to me that two goodwills are as calculated, fair values of net assets are given in the question within the two respective statements of financial position, two fair value adjustments attributable to non-depreciable land are calculated and recoverable amounts are given in the questions.
So, where’s the problem? Or maybe it’s me that is missing something?
October 21, 2014 at 3:52 pm #205259both questions have used different methods in terms of calculating the impairment loss. Minny has used the net assets in the SOFP in the question and Trailer has used net assets @ R/D calculated in working 2.
October 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm #2052632,220 net assets is in the question, 35 fair value adjustment is as calculated, 80 goodwill is as calculated and recoverable amount is given.
“Total equity 2,220”
“The recoverable amount of the net assets of Park was $2,088 million.”
“The excess in fair value is due to non-depreciable land.” (calculated as 35 in working 1 “FV adjustment – land (balance) 35”“Fair value of consideration for 60% interest 1,250
Fair value of identifiable net assets acquired:
Share capital 1,210
Retained earnings 650
OCE 55
FV adjustment – land (balance) 35
1,950 x 60% 1,170
Goodwill 80”???????????????
October 21, 2014 at 6:14 pm #205300yes I agree that’s for trailer but if you look at minny rather than using the “Total equity 879″ they have used ” total assets $1130″
sorry I didn’t really explain it at the previous msgs
October 22, 2014 at 8:02 am #205367I understand Kerri totally, I have the same problem. You see Mike let me make the problem clearer to you. In Trailer we are told “Goodwill of Park and Caller was impairment tested at 31 May 2013. There was no impairment relating to Caller. The recoverable amount of the net assets of Park was $2,088 million. There was no impairment of the net assets of Park before this date and any impairment loss has been determined to relate to goodwill and property, plant and equipment.”
So when we want to get the impairment here we take the net assets at y/e & then we add goodwill (and proportional goodwill, in this case because we are told to use the proportional goodwill method, but otherwise we wouldn’t gross it up). So we take 2255 + 133.3 (goodwill, grossed up in total) and then compare this with the recoverable amount of 2088 to get impairment of 300.3
Now in Minny, we don’t follow this style or this method. Why?
In Minny, we are told as follows:
“Both Bower and Heeny were impairment tested at 30 November 2012. The recoverable amounts of both cash generating units as stated in the individual financial statements at 30 November 2012 were Bower, $1,425 million, and Heeny, $604 million, respectively. The directors of Minny felt that any impairment of assets was due to the poor performance of the intangible assets. The recoverable amount has been determined without consideration of liabilities which all relate to the financing of operations.”
Now the net assets, at y/e of Heeny, for instance, were $400 and then the goodwill for Heeny was 23 so why not just add this two figures together to get 423 and compare with 604 to get no impairment since recoverable amount is greater than carrying value.
Instead, what the answer does, is that it look on to the “total assets” in the original balance sheet (or statement of financial position, given in the question above) so in the published balance sheet of Heeny in the original questions for total assets is that we are given ” 595″ + goodwill of “23” and then fair value adjustments of “36” and then compare the total of all these figures (654) with 604 to then get an impairment (50) to set off against goodwill and then intangible assets .
Why are there two different approaches to impairments? Why this discrepancy between the 2012 Dec exam and the 2013 June exam? How will we know in the exam to decide which approach to follow. There are two methods, conflicting with each other and giving differing results. Could you kindly explain this to me and Kerry, please?
October 22, 2014 at 9:32 am #205374For Trailer impairment loss is £247 or £ 300.3? see for proportionate do we always gross it up? for goodwill calculation. can you let me know how we arrive to 133.3 for goodwill rather than $80?
Thanks
October 22, 2014 at 5:15 pm #205424Kerri, we gross up the Trailer values for the notional goodwill attributable to the nci but then we deduct that notional goodwill further down in the same working (from memory the parent held 60% and the nci 40%) If 80 is the goodwill attributable to 60% then the nci must have notional goodwill of 53.33. But since the nci have not been allocated any goodwill, we cannot allocate any of the impairment loss of goodwill against them.
However, we can allocate some of the impairment loss attributable to the INCA against the nci (40% x (247 – 80) )
Me (and Kerri) the question states that “The recoverable amount has been determined without consideration of liabilities which all relate to the financing of operations.” What does the recoverable amount become when the liabilities are also taken into account?
The lesson here is that it is vital that you read very carefully (and understand fully) the question and the information that the examiner is giving you. In the two questions, the information is slightly different
Does that help?
October 22, 2014 at 5:29 pm #205429Dear Mike,
It’s ME here, I still don’t understand. With regard to my above query of calculating goodwill in Minny and Trailer, what’s the liability thing you referred to above. Could you please explain?
October 22, 2014 at 5:38 pm #205437Because recoverable amount is overstated (““The recoverable amount has been determined without consideration of liabilities which all relate to the financing of operations.”) we need to reconsider / recalculate the recoverable amount in order to be able to compare the adjusted figure with the fair valued net assets
Does that make it better?
October 23, 2014 at 9:39 am #205541sorry i still dont understand why they take ” total assets” for minny and ” total equity” for Trailer.
also do we take the the grossed up goodwill to conolidation just in general? and lets say if under proprtional method goodwill is 20 and impairment is 20. A acquired 60% of B ( sub), so we gross it up $33.33 goodwill. so we:
CR goodwill $20
CR INCA $13.33
DR NCI ( 13.33*0.40) $5.32
DR RE $ ??do we take goodwill at gross at consildation
October 23, 2014 at 10:09 am #205549No, the notional grossing up is merely to determine whether the investment is impaired.\
instead of grossing up, I believe we could consider the parent’s percentage of the recoverable amount and compare that with the parent’s investmentRe the “total asset / total equity” issue we would normally take total equity because capital employed (ie total equity) = net assets
In Minny the asset value is given, not the net assets. And we need net assets
Are we there yet?
October 23, 2014 at 10:54 am #205565oh ok i understand it now 🙂 finally. this question got me so stressed.
can you take my example above:
lets say if under proprtional method goodwill is 20 and impairment is 20. A acquired 60% of B ( sub), so we gross it up $33.33 goodwill. so we:CR goodwill $20
CR INCA $13.33
DR NCI ( 13.33*0.40) $5.32
DR RE $ ??what do we DR for RE?
October 23, 2014 at 11:14 am #205568If we already know that goodwill is 20 and that impairment is 20, and we know that nci is proportional …….
The reason why we would gross up for the notional goodwill of the proportionate nci is to determine whether there has been an impairment when compared with recoverable amount.
So your question precludes the necessity to gross up because you already have given the figure of 20 as the impairment
If we needed to gross up (because you didn’t know the impairment amount), we would consider the fair values of the identifiable net assets, add on our 20 goodwill, add on the notional goodwill attributable to the nci (13.33 in your example) compare that total with recoverable amount, calculate the value of the impairment, deduct the notional value of the nci goodwill and charge the resultant amount against the parent goodwill (Dr PorL Impairment, Cr Goodwill)
In your figures above, we won’t credit nci with 13.33 and we won’t debit nci with 5.32. The only entry that you would need is to debit PorL, probably in cost of sales, with the parent’s share of the impairment. Because the nci is proportional, the parent’s share is 100% so Dr PorL Impairment CoSales and Cr Goodwill
Getting there?
October 23, 2014 at 12:49 pm #205592🙂 im nearly getting there. So if the question gives you the impairment loss we do not need to gross as you mentioned the impairment loss already includes the grossed up goodwill.
so referring to my examplr above we just need to CR goodwill $20 and DR RE $20 we do not need to split NCI?
Lets say another example to clear my missunderstandings.using above percentages etc.and prop method $8 goodwill, FV @ NA $9 and recoverable amount $10. impairment would be $22.33-10= $10.33
so we CR goodwill $8
CR INCA $2.33
DR NCI $ (0.4*2.33) 0.93
DR RE $ (0.6* 10.33) 6.20its just in trailer question they did something similar.
October 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm #205599Agreed impairment of $10.33 – that’s comparing identifiable net assets + goodwill + notional goodwill with recoverable amount
That’s an interesting journal entry you have up there! You appear to be missing a debit of $3.20
Suspense Account maybe? 🙂
See my next post below
October 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm #205600we CR goodwill $8
impairment is $10.33 – $5.33 ( less notional goodwill) = $4.67
so impairment loss to be allocated to goodwill which is cr goodwill $4.67, and RE 4.67. goodwill relating to nci is not recognised under the proprtional method. is this right?
October 23, 2014 at 1:26 pm #205604Kerri – do you have a calculator?
$10.33 goodwill less $5.33 attributable to nci notional goodwill leaves $5 to be impaired (equivalent to your $4.67!)
Dr Retained earnings Cr Goodwill $5
and nothing goes against the nci
Are we now sorted?
October 23, 2014 at 1:35 pm #205609🙁 i dont have calculator with me but cant count today. yes im sorted thanks so much mike.
October 23, 2014 at 2:37 pm #205628You’re welcome
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