September 8, 2020 at 11:00 am #584022opentuition_teamKeymaster
September 8, 2020 at 12:00 pm #584062umaimaahmerParticipant
What did you get?
September 8, 2020 at 12:31 pm #584074aystochastic101Participant
What questions were asked?
September 8, 2020 at 1:32 pm #584082
I studied a lot for this exam and found it very tough. Wearing a mask didn’t help stress levels in there. The 35 mark question was for the most part about whether a company should take 20% or 30% ownership of a company in a foreign country. There was about 10-15 marks for questions around this and I wasn’t able to make many points at all. On the whole I found the questions to be styled very differently to the Kaplan exam practice kit. I would be surprised if I got over 40 marks so not feeling too up beat about it!
September 8, 2020 at 3:15 pm #584122
I wrote about the ability to surrender losses. in both the cases the parent company wudnt be able to use the losses asit did not form part of the 75% group. And ya i felt the overall style was different too. There was 80% explanation to perform considering its ATX, thats odd, there shudve been more calculation as we wud still get follow up marks if we mess up somewhere.
And left close companies question and shat my pants when i saw there were 6 participators and we had to prove that it was a close company. Am now reading the rules and they r actually simple so fml.
September 8, 2020 at 9:37 pm #584158
Yeah I know that through me completely. And absolutely agree on the explanation. I thought I was prepared for a lot of explanation questions but didn’t expect it to be 80% of the exam. I think there was probably a lot of easy but very niche marks. The main concepts of each tax were not the focus, it was very niche elements and rules of the taxes. I did best in the final question and over some of the residency rules but I really wasn’t expecting such an enormous focus in question one on a foreign company. I was expecting a question on consortium or capital gains groups but it was so specific. I guess it goes to show how huge this syllabus is, if I get above 40 it’ll show me that I can do it but 99% sure I didn’t pass
September 8, 2020 at 2:08 pm #584102accastudentxxParticipant
Hi what were the questions today?
September 8, 2020 at 3:18 pm #584123
CGT and Incorporation relief(explanation)
Ethics question- upto what extent can experience from other clients can be used
Ways of loss relief
and many other i cant remember them now
September 8, 2020 at 3:10 pm #584119
Who are the 4 clowns that found it easy then?
September 8, 2020 at 4:28 pm #584148aystochastic101Participant
Different questions for remote CBE i guess
September 8, 2020 at 6:58 pm #584195
You are right. I didn’t get any cfc, perm establishment questions in my sitting. I had capital losses and buildings sold in a group.
Wish I had cfc and perm establishment as that’s my strength.
Don’t think it’s fair that Acca change questions for cbe depending upon what time you sit. Quite harsh
September 8, 2020 at 5:07 pm #584160khlau90Participant
Thought the exam was fair, first part related to the technical article on ACCA’s site regarding CFC charges and tax implications regarding permanent overseas establishments.
Other computations were quite fair, standard relief questions available, but required less specific details in terms of discussion and also stated which relief to be applied which was somewhat helpful.
That being said, hope I passed!
September 8, 2020 at 5:54 pm #584177nimrodParticipant
Exam was harsh but fair in my opinion (didn’t play to my particular strengths).
There are a lot of decent ATX articles on the website.
Too many for me to read through and remember on top of all the past papers for this sitting… I’ll have to work on this for December.
September 8, 2020 at 6:48 pm #584191geologist81Participant
Was not easy but I think a fair exam;
Q1) Consortium group with 70% + choice of 20 or 30%- here I think it was 20% to avoid the CFC charge.
Q2) Incorporation relief(explanation) of a sole trader business in a company wholly for shares +
IHT calculation + E.R
Q3) Ways of loss relief against current total income or previous total income, tax saved was PA 12500 at 20% – 8000 CGT at 20%
Roll-over relief replacement of building gain = 32 000, only 75% used as business and also 3000 (86000 – 83000 not reinvested) so 11000 taxed now and 21000 deferred
Vat – deregistration
Q4) close company – this was about a penalty charge of 32.5% as the shareholder got a loan from the company, loan can be reimbursed due to certain conditions.
September 8, 2020 at 7:19 pm #584203
roll over relief was not available on the forklift as its not a fixed plant and machinery and over all there was no roll over relief available as the amount not reinvested were more than the gains.
And ACCA had to ask from the 2 topics i skipped-Perm establishment and consortium group. They many fail me this time. Im coming back for these marks in Dec. Floor gang.
September 8, 2020 at 8:05 pm #584209dicky123Participant
I found the exam v difficult and extremely time pressured as expected. Wearing a mask in a stuffy room for 3.25 hrs whilst concentrating hard was torture.
There seemed to be lots of bitty parts to each question, the manager’s email went on and on and on. I understood the aspect of each question but couldn’t articulate it all onto the screen.
Professional level exams should on paper and not computers. It got so damn confusing opening the different attachments, emails, requirements etc. You can’t draw timelines on a computer screen which is imperative for IHT questions, you could potentially pick up a few marks for that if the examiner can see what you’re trying to do, can’t do that with CBE’s. They are just not appropriate for professional level papers.
I don’t buy the whole thing about reflecting the workplace doing it on a computer. It’s an exam. There’s no correlation.
I know I’ve failed but I wouldn’t have passed with any more time to study either.
September 8, 2020 at 9:44 pm #584237joelkirklandParticipant
I sat mine in Southampton and the experience was awful. The exam was 1h20mins late, we were all sat staring at a blank screen for this long waiting. There was no explanation from the invigilators and no apology. The computer equipment was awful, tiny screens and my mouse didn’t work properly. There was even a girl behind me left the room crying because her software had crashed. The computer screens were tiny and the CBE software is horrible and you can’t open more than one box at a time which makes it very hard to understand the question fully and refer back to the scenario etc. The questions themselves I don’t think were too complicated at all however the CBE software, stress of exam being late and masks and old computers made it a very difficult experience. I am thinking of making a formal complaint to be honest, not sure if this will affect my results though.
September 8, 2020 at 10:26 pm #584245VerityParticipant
I also sat the exam in Southampton, was chaos from the minute we arrived! They were quite clearly missing a sheet of paper from the list when they signed us in but kept telling students they weren’t down to be sitting the exam and to take a seat at the side. I had an hour of not knowing if I was going to be able to sit the exam before the 1hr 20 delay. I have complained and lots of other students in the exam were planning on it too. Definitely didn’t pass that one…
September 9, 2020 at 9:45 am #584238
That sounds like a very bad experience. I absolutely agree on the tiny screens and the amount of information you need to look at. You need to have the email from the client, manager and the requirements out + the spreadsheets and word document to actually answer. You are left trying to minimise to a point where you can read everything and its not really a sufficient way of you being able to answer the questions adequately in the time limit. I know this is the first year of CBE exams for professional papers so maybe they need to have a hard look at that. I don’t think I’ll be taking another exam until masks are not required as I really struggled with the heat, breathing and being able to think clearly with it on. That’s not to say if you really know your stuff you can’t pass. I don’t think your complaint will fall on deaf ears as I can see a lot of people giving bad feedback on candidates ability to read and answer the questions.
September 9, 2020 at 10:01 am #584329
You must’ve been a couple of desks away from me in Southampton!
I nasty experience in general and yes, I did notice that poor girl having a melt down – the hardware was appalling – not enough real estate on the screen and I dread to think how much time I wasted trying to format, copy paste, highlight with that mouse – I gave up on the second question and tried to plough through.
Failed exam as little or no attempt at 4th question – bit of a shame but such is the exam!
September 8, 2020 at 10:05 pm #584240Rob17Participant
What did everyone think of the afternoon sitting? The CBE setup threw me off from the start and my plan went out of the window. As for the questions, I struggled on the 18k loss relief on Q3 didn’t see how that was 8 marks? Obviously I missed something off. I found the VAT group question went into a huge amount of detail which I haven’t seen previously.
September 8, 2020 at 10:17 pm #584241proff2251Participant
The whole idea of CBE at professional level is a big disadvantage to those who are going to be doing their professional papers.
Since it is first time in the Uk for students sitting their CBE exam, it is vital for ACCA to conduct a survey and ask students about their views, challenges and recommendations and overall experience of the CBE Exam.
I came out of the exam hall with the expectations to get prepared for December exam. So is another failure for me. I wish I’m wrong!!
September 8, 2020 at 10:58 pm #584249
The CBE for my audit and tax papers have being awful.
I had audit yesterday in London and there was a massive It issue and glitches.
People who were on the 9am exam had to wait until the afternoon session as they couldn’t fit everyone in
My exam was delayed by 2.5 hrs. Invigilators were walking around logging random people at will without any structure or communication.
The screens were small and just not suitable for a tax exam where you have to do calculation and explanation for the same requirement and then link it back. At the same time you need to read the scenario notes and extracts of requirements. That’s 4 different windows in one screen!!
I found it hard to read and comprehend information without going back and forth to the requirements and on top of that the intense time pressure you are under
I am sure like myself a lot of people missed vital information and points due to so much information in a screen.
I hope common sense prevails and Acca decide to withdraw CBE exams for professional papers, or atleast give an option to do paper based. I am also looking to get in touch with Acca regarding the horrible experiences with Cbe, not sure how that will impact results. Why change something if ain’t broken?
September 8, 2020 at 11:28 pm #584250dicky123Participant
With a paper exam, hundreds of people can sit the exam in a centre, they all get the same exam and there are no complications with CBE centres being oversubscribed and these technical issues which simply add to the stress for students. It’s an old fashioned way to sit an exam but well tested and works.
With CBE’s everyone seems to get different questions which means we are not all on a level playing field. It surely is more difficult to moderate the results.
I can see the merit of CBE’s for the F papers which have multiple choice and maybe some written elements etc but for complex exams like ATX which involves several “exhibits” it just does not make sense to run this kind of exam on computers. These papers are clearly not ready to be put on CBE either as is clear by the issues that many students suffered during their sitting today.
ACCA need to restore the paper option for Professional level exams for the sake of everyone.
September 9, 2020 at 10:28 am #584333
I agree with this. Depending upon the time you sit your exam, you are given different questions
I did not get the CFC and permanent establishment question which a few people did on here and that is one of my strengths.
It’s not fair Acca can change the questions at this level as its not level playing field. You can get lucky if you sit in a different session and turns out to be a question you were hoping for as opposed to another person who sits in a different session
September 8, 2020 at 11:33 pm #584251
I thought the exam was ok, quite time-pressurised and I left myself only 2-3 minutes to answer the Q4 6-mark question on CGT/ IT implications of warehouse sales. Annoying but not the end of the world…
Q1 was VERY focused on overseas components of tax (well actually I felt a lot of the paper was). CFC charges, I wrote about them not being relevant if REP Ltd chooses 20% shareholding as the minimum % is 25%. Permanent establishment implications (no loss relief if overseas sub etc). Also discussed consortium relief as the two companies owned 5-74.99% of JAY Ltd. Ethics question on how to use knowledge gained from previous work, I wrote about confidentiality and professional competence and due care (legislation in the overseas country may have changed since a few years ago and we need to be up to date). Found it weird that we were required to write in note form when Q1 includes the 4 professional marks…would be interested to know how others prepared their layout?
Q2 I think was about Freya and her residence status, put some bits about her being a temporary resident as she plans to return to the UK in 5 years so CGT would be payable on her return. Incorporation relief came in and I discussed how she would be seen to be ceasing trading so we need to use the closing year basis for her final tax year (overlap profits etc). Can’t remember the rest, it was all such a blur! I think there was an IHT liability requirement, where you had to include the previous gift to trust and PET that used up the NRB. Was a fairly straightforward requirement, but difficult when you’re under a lot of time pressure!
Q3 Close company questions were ok, although I got confused about 6 participants being needed to reach >50% so said any number of directors could be included (this is probably wrong but oh well). Loan penalty tax and implications on repayment date using 9 month 1 day, not too taxing (pun intended). I said that the penalty for filing 4 months late was £200, hope this is right?!
Q4 I just tried to get as much down as I could in the remaining time. VAT deregistration at £83k, CGT/ IT implications of carrying back loss against trading profits or using it against current year gains. Said you need to elect for the latter.
Overall it’s a doable paper but I found it difficult timewise. Also, I took the exam in London Oval and there were major delays to the start of the exam which were extremely unhelpful. Very noisy generator throughout the exam, desks crammed into foyer hallways, cables everywhere, we weren’t even asked to put our bags away so they just stayed with us at our desk…and to top it all off, my keyboard had no pound sign! Would not recommend to a friend.
September 9, 2020 at 7:24 am #584275
well u seem u prepared very well. my answers were almost the same to urs except the permanent establishment(i skipped that).
and that any no. of directors can be participators is right so yup.
i feel like time was an issue as with all acca papers, but a doable paper with very little technical questions and much more foucessed on the basic tax rules.
September 9, 2020 at 1:52 pm #584383ginetta86Participant
Hi Claudia, just to say thank you for the advice on AAA which you posted. Had an audit risk question for 26 marks and all I remembered was your comment on open tuition.. To leave it at about 55 mins and move on. I did just that and I managed to complete the rest of the paper to time..!!! My next one is SBL… Did you manage to sit SBL as well on top of tax..?
September 9, 2020 at 4:24 pm #584410
Ah I’m really happy to hear that!! Time management is so key with AAA isn’t it…
I couldn’t sit SBL with tax in the end as they were at the same time 🙁 but will be sitting it in December, my last one (all being well with ATX yesterday!)
September 9, 2020 at 5:09 pm #584428ginetta86Participant
I already know you passed ATX as you pretty much passed all the rest I have seen on OT with good scores! Will need your advice for SBL in December because I am taking mine in March 2021 as I have a project report to submit under the accountancy and taxation apprenticeship! Then am done!!
September 9, 2020 at 10:11 pm #584548hclarke1990Participant
Oh my! I couldn’t agree more about London Oval centre. I have put in a centre complaint and mitigating circumstances!
1. Queuing from 12:45pm to 15:00pm when exam start time was 14:30pm
2. Centre wasn’t hygienic and toilets weren’t clean.
3. Too many students crammed into the centre with desks everywhere and cables all over the floor not safely taped down! Major trip hazard!
4. Bags left under desks – never had that before!
5. The generator noise was unbearable even with earplugs.
6. The hardware was awful, mine was slow and kept freezing
7. A student next to me had their phone ring mid exam and was allowed to turn it off then text someone! And then could carry on their exam
8. Students finished at different times and were allowed to leave!
I won’t list anymore – complete shambles from start to finish!
September 9, 2020 at 12:37 am #584257khlau90Participant
I had a similar experience Claudia – similar points for your answers. Surprisingly I had a bit of a nightmare with the taxable benefits and provision of loan vs company paying for Dorian’s travel assistance and the time pressure didn’t help for that. Good luck!
Sat it in Ealing, London (Viglan) house, equipment wasn’t too bad and had a generally pleasant experience despite some delays. I think for CBE at Professional Level there should be a paper copy provided also in addition to the software as I find typing my answers and spreadsheet software so much more efficient then pen and paper.
September 9, 2020 at 8:55 am #584306yvonnevParticipant
I knew loads of stuff for this exam but new very little about close companies and overseas companies. The syllabus is just so big.
I would have loved a question on groups and buildings like other people got. Didn’t realise there was more than one paper???
Hoping for a borderline pass but doubt it. Going to keep on doing the exam kit anyway otherwise I will forget all this in my head.
Tip from tutor that helped me: copy the requirements into your submission document – then close the requirements tab. You can always then delete after you have answered.
Good luck with the results everyone!
September 9, 2020 at 11:04 am #584338
This if from memory so correct me if any of this is wrong!! I got: (some of this probably is wrong!!)
Q1) sale of land and buildings – group losses:
– building 1 couldn’t use lose as PECL
– building 2 can’t use as in group NGNL transfer
Base cost of building 3:
– received in NGNL in old group so will be original cost
This loss can be transferred but only 9/12 as time in the gain group wasn’t full year
SDLT – payable on NGNL on building 3 as they left the group within 3 years
VAT on buildings – only if opt to tax (wasn’t) or commercial building under 3 years old – only applied to building 3
Ethics – ok to use prior knowledge? I put yes as provides competence as long as it doesn’t breach confidentiality or create a conflict of interest? Get consent off both parties for acting for two in the same industry?
Q2) income tax savings on gifts
– dividend income for one opposed to the other On gift of shares
– rental income if house gifted – I thought DTR must be on UK tax due to the amount she received?? This might have been a bad guess!!! Haha
ER v GR – ER doesn’t defer but charges 10%, while GR defers gain to recipient but could be 10/20% depending on their banding at the time –
CGT for gift of house I believe – gain = MV – Cost + capital expenditure – no GR as not QA so change CT at time I think
IHT question – I definitely got the NRB on gift incorrect as looked at transfers from 7 years from death not the gift date but outside that:
AEA CY and PY
NRB at death 0 if gift made
Fall in value relief for house
No taper relief as died within 3 years
Q3) trading loss – can be used CY or PY or CY claim v gains
Do a working for all three above – I split rental income between years using cash basis but incorrectly said PY had to be after CY – hoping it doesn’t cost me too much!
CGT on warehouses – CGT/IT implications – I went for ROR but only for 75% as business use so deferred some of the gain
Forklift cannot be used for ROR but will have capital allowances so IT implication is a deduction of full value due to AIA – again could be wrong!!
Group VAT – not sure on when but same rules for filing so no extension and annual accounting not available
Q4) I had a shocker on this one!
Why a close group – 5 participators must have control – I got 5 to not come to 50%? So went on about control not only being shareholding
Someone help as this one is annoying me!!!!
Loan – date change changes when company gets tax paid on loan back and when loan becomes dividend income for individual? Taxed as HR on 32.5% due to banding
Two options – taxable benefits become dividends, parking exempt, mileage allowance doesn’t cover all fuel costs – I missed the interest free bit being a benefit!
VAT filing – I got the penalties wrong I think after the 100 fixed penalty but filing date was 3 months after notice
Please feel feee to correct me and throw additional information in – just trying to see how this lines up to others!! I am not happy with how I did and would not be shocked to be doing this exam again come December! Hope you all fared better than me!!
September 9, 2020 at 11:12 am #584339billyzeqiriParticipant
I got exactly the same sitting as you Conor, great memory!! It was hard but sounds like you did enough to pass, I’m hoping I did too but reading these makes you question it haha..
Wrt the close companies, I was lucky I read it as going into exam.. it’s any numbers of directors and 5 or fewer shareholders.
In this case Dorians dad owned shares, therefore he and Dorian became one individual. In this case this made it a close company.
It’s my last one so I’m praying I won’t have to do it again!
September 9, 2020 at 11:14 am #584340
Might have been my maths!! I added him and his dad together and got 28% then I thought all the other shareholders had 5%?
More likely I’ve misread it! But obv based on the above I got 48% between 5!
Also sure you’ve done fine – hopefully you qualified!!
If all the above is correct then I should be fine but I question a lot of it!!!!!
September 9, 2020 at 11:34 am #584347
I think I got 61% as it was 28% Dorian + father (5% + 23%), 8% for any 4 of the remaining 2% shareholders, and then 25% for any number of directors (which were 5 at 5% each)
September 9, 2020 at 11:26 am #584343
I did the same exam as you conor,
I had the same answer for building 1 and 2 but as 6 years hadnt passed for building 3 i thought there would have been a degrouping charge and therefore the asset would be valued at the market rate.
Had the same answer for ethics too, about separating teams and not sharing any confidential info
I forgot the aea on the iht question which im now kicking myself about, funny what the pressure does to my brain what a silly error to make!
I was sure for dtr either, there was a note in the memo about it too but i didnt understand what it was implying! I added 29% of the rental income back as tax saved presuming she wont have to pay that if she gifts the house.
I also went for rollover relief, i apportioned the gain to 1/4,l that was immediately taxable and also i think she only reinvested 83 not the whole 85 so i chucked the 2k as chargeable immediately too then the rest as rollover, not sure how correct that was.
I knew for the forklift about rollover relief but didnt make a point about it which on reflection i should have noted that!
Any reason why you put annual vat wasnt allowable? I put down if they were under the turnover 1350.. limit and up to date itd be good to go .
For close companies its any no of directors and their associates and the other shareholder was his dad, which i presumed is an associate so that took them over 50% and they therefore have control.
I put the taxable benefits as income benefit but youre right on close companies think theyre taxed as distributions
I thought the last bit was about corporation tax filing so mentioned about 100 penalty for late submission then 100 again after 3 months but if this was about vat i was completely on the wrong path ahhaa
Overall abit of a tough exam for timing and not sure i wrote enough points but it wasnt as bad as i was dreading beforehand !
September 9, 2020 at 11:39 am #584348
Sorry the last question was CT filing!!! That’s a typo on my behalf!!
I didn’t work out Martha’s gain on the gift of the house as the question told you her saving I believe.
I think annual accounting scheme isn’t available for groups – only cash accounting and that’s apportioned.
There would be a DGC which would be added on to the consideration – probably should have mentioned it – think this makes the CGT base cost the MV at the time of gift. Think you’ve got something I missed there for sure!
For close companies did I read a percentage wrong? Was his and other 5 directors 5% then his dad 23? As should be control between 5 right – so Dorian plus 4 others?
September 9, 2020 at 11:50 am #584351
For martha yeah it was for the saving i agree i just presumed she might pay dracian tax on the rental income from the uk so i put that shed save that amount too.
Oh damn i didnt remember that about vat annual groups, i think youre right! I waffled on for ages about that too haha oops!!
For the close companies, its a close company when theres five or fewer shareholders or for any amount (not
just five) when theyre directors and associates, so i added Dorian, his dad and the other 5 and it came to just over 50 so meant they had control – i cant remember the exact amounts
I got lucky with this one as id read this in the morning before the sitting!
There were some pretty niche little questions to be fair
September 9, 2020 at 12:16 pm #584358
Think there was also an SSE question in 1?
Didn’t have it as their shareholding dropped below 10% more than 6 years ago if I remember rightly
Trying to remember the mark splits but escaping me
September 9, 2020 at 12:00 pm #584355
Ahhhhh damn! I thought it had to be 5 or under shareholding’s so I got to 48%!!! I then waffled about having control of the boardroom and decision making to prove control so may get a mark or two ahha
Hoping for stuff like forgetting DGC it costs me like 1 mark from 5 but very hard to tell!! Like your VAT miss is 1 mark tops anyway!!
A lot of questions on small revision areas in my opinion!
September 9, 2020 at 12:46 pm #584365
Yeah precisely! I mean if you go in another direction hopefully theyll give you follow through marks if youve backed up what youre saying kind of thing.
Oof i missed the fact theyd dropped below the 10% i put theyd owned more than that for 12m in the last 6 years so they qualified!
Hey you cant win them all i guess !!
September 9, 2020 at 12:52 pm #584367
Yeah I agree really tough! I nearly did the same until I check when they went from 14-8 but again if it’s for 4/5 marks? You should get 1/2 for conditions anyway you’d think!
September 9, 2020 at 1:14 pm #584372
Im now thinking did i put 5% and confuse it with ER! So many possibilities ! Will have to see how results day turns out to find out i guess
September 9, 2020 at 1:17 pm #584373
Yeah same!! I wouldn’t worry may be me reading it wrong!!!
September 9, 2020 at 11:18 pm #584551henry1accaParticipant
Damn, sounds like everybody had a rough time. I may be sitting this in December. Any advice?
September 10, 2020 at 12:39 pm #584680
Make a start on it now – it took me 6 weeks or so to get through the basics. Only left me with 2 weeks of past exam practice which isn’t enough to cover all the various bits of tax.
It’s not as complex as you might think, just requires coverage but also depth of knowledge which makes it such a tough paper…
September 10, 2020 at 5:39 pm #584830henry1accaParticipant
Thanks for the advice. Gonna start studying this tomorrow for a solid 3 months. I had a similar experience with TX, I was convinced i failed PM so i started studying it again straight after the exam. Any how turns out i had passed! Problem was i then only had 6 weeks to prepare for the TX exam but managed to scrape through by scoring 51%. Don’t want to play Russian roulette this time around
September 10, 2020 at 2:48 pm #584758TamasParticipant
I have sat this exam in London on Tuesday, and got an email from acca today saying:
“We are getting in touch as we’ve notice you have not sat an exam recently and we want to ensure you are fully supported along your ACCA journey.”
Did anyone else got this email?? not sure why i was sent this as i have sat my exam is this another clash in acca system?
September 11, 2020 at 10:32 am #584947
Q3) What did everyone do for the travel assistance to drakan I think it was? There were two alternatives given and had to compare it. Is it to do with capital allowances and allowable expenditure for corporation tax?
I just did some Income tax computation between the two, not even sure is that’s correct 🙁
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