[techno]

Hi amcterna,
Thanks for the info. That is a real eye-opener for me.
I agree….no way is Balham SE. It is definitely SW London (I used to live in Streatham).

Unfortunately, I am currently based way over near Welling (very much South East)….so Brixton and Balham would be a bonkers journey on exam day.

So I have plumped for a totally different (non-London) centre instead.
Just to be on the safe side.
I decided I’d rather have a bit more control over where I’m gonna end up on exam day…..rather than leave it to pot-luck.

Thanks for your info….it really helped clarify my decision for me.

[techno]

I’m pretty sure you can…in fact, it might not be a bad idea if you are running a bit short of time and think the gong will go before you’ve written up the whole answer in long-hand. At least with the plan there, the marker can consider giving you a teeny bit of credit for a key word or two which you never got to use.

However, you must clearly mark your plan “Plan/Notes”, and even draw a ruler line between it and the proper answer, so the marker can see where the plan ends and the answer begins.

I’ve tried both approaches in previous exams…and my personal pref is to write my plan in the question booklet (then I don’t worry if it’s a shambles, or looks messy).
But I do remember one exam where the gong went and I had written a super list of key phrases in my question booklet, but which I never had time to transfer to the answer booklet…so the marker never got to see it & I lost the marks for it.

It’s swings and roundabouts really…a matter of personal pref…but, yes, you can write plans in the answer booklet.

(Although not during the 15min reading time…no writing at all in the answer-booklet during the reading time….only in the question paper).

[techno]

Thanks richieinspain….that’s really helped clear that up in my head.

…good luck on Wednesday! 🙂

And thanks for the link lsoltobaeva…i forgot to read that article…I’ll read it tonight!

[techno]

Ahh,

So with Egoism, do you mean that you might decide to act in an ethical way because it makes you feel good about yourself, and therefore an unexpected consequence is that society also benefits, but the real motivation for my choice was that I wanted to make myself feel good about myself?

Or have I got that wrong?

Or do you mean that I might make a decision that profits me, but the two consequences might be
I make proftt = my intended consequence
society benefits = the uninteded consequence?

Or do you mean I would lie about it…and make the decision primarily to profit myself, but argue that I’d really done it because it was ethical to society?

I’m not really sure….

[techno]

OMG, a lot of this ethical theory seems overlapping and a bit contradictory….but I think I just haven’t got to grips with it properly.

In theory, Deontology is supposed to be about universal, absolute principles, and not be concerned with the outcome/consequences.

But as richieinspain showed…even when applying the 3 Deontology/Kant principles, you kinda end up considering the conseqences in order to decide if the action is ethical (ie. considering whether your action respects the human dignity of others automatically requires you to first consider how your action impacts on their human dignity…ie. its consequences.) It seems alright in theory, but when you start applying it, it all seems contradictory…..but maybe that’s where Pluralism comes in!

Richieinspain’s example of the Deontolgy seemed a good one to me.

Teleologically…well I’m lost!
My book says there are 2 types of Teleology…
Utilitarianism – the greatest good for the greatest number.
or
Egoism – it is justified if it satsfies my own short-term desires, or my long-term interests.

The Utilitarianism is straightforward…but the Egoism sounds like a licence to do whatever you feel like….or is that the point?

[techno]

The thing about the black ball-point pen is true…I remember they brought in the requirement 2 or 3 years ago.

There were several other requirements they brought in concerning writing in the margin and writing up to the edge of the pages, but I can’t remember what they were….(they used to send you out a sheet with all the requirements with your exam entry docket…now they don’t send you anything).

Can anyone remember what the requirements were regarding writing in the margins and to the edge of the page?

[techno]

Thanks richieinspain…

Thanks to crazycujo’s earlier posts, I managed to understand the difference between the COSO 8-stage Risk Mgt Framework….and the COSO 5-stage “Review of Internal Controls”…

….the problem I’m actually having is that there is no such thing as a COSO 5-stage “Review of Internal Controls” in my textbook…my BPP book says that for reviewing the internal controls (for instance, when the board does it’s regular and annual reviews of IC) then you should use the Turnbull 4-stage approach to review IC:

1) Risk assessment,
2) Control environment & control activities,
3) Information & communication,
4) Monitoring.

The only ref to anything resembling a COSO 5-stage review is this COSO’s “Internal Control Over Financial Reporting – Guidance for Smaller Public Companies”…which has the correct 5-stages, but says they are actuallly intended for controls over fin. reporting/statements, rather than all Internal Controls across all the org.

So it looks like the confusion has come out of the fact that BPP say IC should be reviewed by the Turnbull 4-stages, but Kaplan says you can use the COSO 5-stages.

Crazycujo sowed an idea in my head when they said that the COSO 5-stage is used in SOX…this would make sense, as SOX requires the identification of a framework used to review the IC over the fin reporting….so I figured maybe you use the coso 5-stage for the IC over fin. statements, but for reviews of the ICS across the whole org, you would use the Turnbull 4-stage.

That was the only way I could make sense of it…but obviously I’m just trying do do a bit of detective work on why something so important would be so different in my BPP textbook to the Kaplan.

I’m 100% confident that the use of the COSO 5-stage review would be correct if the exam question asks for a framework to meet the SOX requirements of review of controls over fin statements.

But what I am unsure of is what to do if the exam asks for a framework for the board’s review of IC’s in general…the BPP textbook really pushes the Turnbull 4-stage…..

And unfortunately I’ve no Kaplan text, so I’m stuck with the BPP Turnbull recommnedation.

It would be easier if there was just one framework for IC…like the Kaplan says…

Tricksy….

[techno]

Thanks richieinspain,
I agree with you…my docket also says 10am start, but just says exam lasts 3 hours.

I vaguely recall my last exam finishing at 13.15pm, but called ACCA-connect just to check this….which is why I was shocked when the guy on the phone said No, the reading time starts at 9.45am, the writing starts at 10am, and the exam finshes at 13.00pm….I don’t think he knows what he’s talking about.

I’m gonna go with your answer…reading at 10am, writing at 10.15am…fits in with what I thought too….

…thanks for that.

[techno]

Thank you OT and those who have posted above…I would never have been able to find this article on ACCA website if not for the info above…you’ve been a lifesaver!

[techno]

Thanks crazycujo, that’s very helpful.
The problem I’ve been having with this 5-stage COSO review of Internal Controls, is that it’s not actually in my textbook (BPP).
When it comes to reveiw of internal controls, my book advocates the 4-part Turnbull approach:
1) Risk assessment,
2) Control environment & control activities,
3) Information & communication,
4) Monitoring.

…obviously similar to the COSO review, but a bit different.

The only thing I can find in my textbook that is anything like the 5-stage COSO review, is a tiny reference to COSO’s “Internal Control Over Financial Reporting – Guidance for Smaller Public Companies”….
….this does have 5-stages, and it is from COSO, but it deals with how these 5-stages should be applied to financial reporting…ie. the objectives of fin reporting, the reliability of fin statements, controls over fin reporting information etc.

As you can see this is not really focusing on Internal Controls and risk mgt, the focus is on fin statements and reporting.

Hence my confusion when I saw a 5-stage COSO review being applied to Internal Controls in general….all my textbook says is that is an aid to reviewing Fin Reporting risks, not an approach to reviewing the orgs entire Internal Control system.

Your reference to SOX was very interesting…because I know SOX requires additional Internal Control disclosure/reports, and my BPP textbook says this should be an “Internal Control report” which states:

– “managements responsibility for establishing & maintaining adequate internal control over fin reporting”
plus
– “an assessment of the effectiveness of the internal control over fin reporting”
plus
– “a statement identifying the framework used by management to evaluate the effectiveness of the company’s internal control over fin reporting.”

My book then goes on to refer to just 4 things that might be done to review control systems:
1- Identify controls at an entity and operational level.
2- Reviewing the completeness of documentation.
3- Testing Controls.
4- Advising on contents of the “Internal Control report” contents, and identifying any weaknesses.

As you can see, this is not the same as the 4-part Turnbull reveiw of Internal Controls, nor the 5-part COSO review of Internal Controls.

So I couldn’t see how the COSO 5-part reveiw would be used/fit in to an exam answer. If they ask for a review of Internal Control systems, then the book advocates the 4-part Turnbull approach…if I use the COSO 5-part review instead, the marker might regard that as not quite right.

So, would it be fair to say that for exam questions requiring general reveiws of Internal Control systems (eg for the board’s annual review of IC)….then we should use the 4-part Turnbull approach,
but,
– if the exam question requires a review of just the Fin Reports, say for the purposes of SOX, then we should use the COSO 5-part fin reporting review?

Would this be correct?

(Sorry for the long length of this question).

[techno]

Thanks again crazycujo for the helpful example….I too get the impression that this examiner likes us to set out our answers without using “bullets/points”, but prefers short paragraphs, with a line between each point/paragraph.

Instead of “points/bullets”, for P1 it is prefered to have a short heading, underlining the brief point/introduction to your point…then go on to expand on that for the rest of the paragraph (even if it is only another sentence or two).
Then start a new paragraph for the next point…just like your example.

This seems to be how exam answers have been set out in past papers…however, I could be wrong…just my interpretation.

With regards to the question of abbreviation….
I saw something about this on this forum/ask the tutor…..

I think the tutor said that abbreviations are OK as long as the first time you refer to it you write it out in full, followed by the abbreviation in brackets…like this….

“Non-Executive Directors (NEDs)”

…then from that point onwards you can use the abbreviation NEDs in your answer, as you have now told the marker what you mean by that.

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Thanks crazycujo, your explanation is very helpful.

So is this correct:

COSO has an 8 stage Enterprise Risk Managment framework which is appliaed across an org. from the Board down to operations, to manage risks.

But…

COSO has also published a 5-stage Reveiw of Internal Controls.
This 5-stage reveiw looks at just the implementation/effectiveness of Internal Controls.
This is separate to the 8-stage Risk Mgt Framework, although there is some overlap between them because Internal Controls play a big role in Risk Mgt…hence the overlap.

So they are 2 separate COSO frameworks, but there is overlap between their functions.

Have I got that right…please correct me if my understanding is wrong?

Many thanks.

[techno]

Thanks crazycujo…I agree with your 8 components of the COSO framework.

But where does richieinspain’s 5-part COSO review of Internal Controls fit into this 8-part framework?

Is it one of the 8 elements….or is it something totally separate?

[techno]

Thanks richieinspain for your helpful post.

Sorry to be a dunce about this, but I thought the COSO framework had 8 parts,

– Internal/Control environment,
– Objective setting,
– Event identification,
– Risk assessment,
– Risk response,
– Control activities/procedures,
– Info & communications,
– Monitoring.

Where does your COSO 5-part reveiw of Internal control systems fit into this?
Is your 5-part review all part of COSO stage 1…the Internal/Control environment?

Your 5-part Review of IC seems very sensible, but I can’t seem to find any reference to it in my BPP textbook, so I’m completely lost!

Thanks.

[techno]

Hi rafa2302 ,
What tanahteck79 said is quite right…you must be satisfied that the info you use is accurate and reliable….otherwise you should not use it…and therefore you have to be extra vigilant with data from websites and do all your checks before you use it.

And as tanahteck79 said, a reference list with a variety of sources shows you did a bit of reading around…..however, remember that any “articles”, newspapers and journals which have been accessed online (as opposed to paper versions) have to referenced slightly differently to the paper versions….as per the ACCA OBU instructions.

I also was under the impression that a bibliography is not required (unlike a reference list…which is essential). However, in the end I did have a very short bibliography of about 5 articles/books i’d read but not actually used/quoted in the final report.
You may well find that there are books/articles that you used in your decision making or research, but which did not make it into the final RAP, so these could be included in a bibliography.

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Hi rafa2302,
You MUST reference every single source of info that you use…this includes webpages, books, articles etc. The BSc guide on the ACCA website has a whole section on referencing and lists in precise detail how each type of source must be referenced…ie the way you reference a webpage is slightly different from how you reference a book, and this in turn is slightly different from how you must reference an article, and so on….
I found referencing extremely tricky, as i had never had to do it before…but OBU regard it as so important that they fail candidates who don’t reference their sources.
All I can suggest is that you follow the referencing guide on the ACCA website to the letter…reference each of your sources exactly how they ask you to do it, and then you can’t go wrong.

As to how reliable the websites are….well, this is where you’re gonna have to use your judgement. Some websites are abviously reliable and fine to use…eg ACCAglobal. You may also feel sites like BBC, or well known newspapers or periodicals such as Telegraph or Guardian are also reliable sources for news/info. Other sites you may not be so sure of, in which case you’re gonna have to try to verify their info from a second/third source, to be doubly sure it is realiable.
This is all part of the reasearch process and you can refer to this process of elimination/verification/selection in Part 2 of your RAP when you talk about sources of info, the methods used to collect the info, and the limitations of the data….it shows you’ve thought about the realiablility of info on websites and it shows the steps you took to verify/check your data sources.

Hope that answers your query.

[techno]

Hi guys,

rafa2302….in their email OBU said it was up to students how many slides they used for their presentation….so there is a bit of discretion there….however, bear in mind that you only have 15 mins to do the presentation….so you really won’t have time to go through tonnes of slides…if you did 12-18 slides you would have around 1 minute (more/less) per slide….so you need to decide how much time you need to present each slide to your mentor. Also, don’t forget that OBU are looking to ensure that the content of your slides is related to/reflects the content of your report…

sn0b01….I can’t seem to locate the info on the ACCA website…but I’m sure I read somewhere that they recommend you print one sided only….this is what I did.
They do say it must be wordprocessed in black print on white A4 paper and they recommend you use a standard font like Ariel, font size 11 or 12.

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Hi,
rafa2302…..I got my result by email on the evening of 29-3-11 (a day earlier than I was expecting it)….it just said I had passed my RAP and degree and that a letter was to follow.
Then a day or two later I got a letter in the post telling me my RAP grade and the class of degree etc.

sn0b01…..I also emailed OBU about how many slides per side….they said that the printout of the presentation slided should be attached to the end of the SLS, and they recommended that you print them out with 6 slides to a page. I’m sure that describing them is NOT good enough….you really must attach copies of the actual slides from your presentation….just print them out 6 slides per page and attach them at the end of your SLS, so that the RAP, SLS and slide printouts all get bound together as one document. I was really paranoid that I would forget to include my slide printouts, coz this is also a top 4 reason for why RAPs get failed (ie. forgetting to include presentation slide printouts).

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Hi sn0b01,

With regards to the mentor….there is a section that the mentor fills on on your submission form (the form you download from ACCA website to accompany your RAP and fee). Mentors fill in their address and email and in theory OBU can contact them if they have any queries about your work or the RAP presentation.
I don’t know how often OBU contact mentors…whether it is randomly or if there is a problem. My mentor gave the impression that they very rarely do contact them….but I don’t know how true this is….

Binding…..I too had this problem, and emailed OBU. They said it was up to students how they bound their RAP/learning statements/slides together…but they suggested spiral comb binding, which is what I used (if you don’t have a machine, you can get kits in big stationers for spiral comb binding).
(The info on ACCA website specifically said do not use ring-binders….I guess coz these are too bulky or risk popping open).

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Hi sn0b01,
The advice tanahteck79 gave in the other Topic 8 thread was spot on I’d say. Think about using some of the obvious models such as the SWOT, Pestal or Porters 5 Forces. Watch out for overlap between some of these, as a good SWOT will also cover a lot of stuff in some Pestal or Porter…you don’t want to waste words repeating similar analysis of the same data.
I can’t tell you which ones to plump for, as I think part of what OBU want you to do for the RAP show that you know how to pick the most appropriate models for your data. A good way to demonstrate that you know how to do this is to explain in your RAP WHY you chose the models you applied, and why you left out/didn’t use some of the other models (ie. if you left out some because of overlap, then tell them that in your RAP; or if you felt that you had insufficient data to apply a particular model, then tell them that)….this will show the markers that you understand a range of different models and that you can selectively choose the most appropriate ones for your particular data/company. You want to show them that you know your stuff and that you are able to appropriately apply the best ones for your particular RAP.

If you are like me then you probably are doubting your ability to do this…but have confidence in your ability. If you’ve come this far then you have already passed 9 exams (or got exemptions) and you obviously know your stuff.
And don’t forget what tanahteck79 mentioned about horizontal/trend analysis….as well as some business models and the financial ratios, you also have to look at trends in the financial data.
And one big tip my mentor gave me, was that it is not sufficient to just say that a figure has gone up or down over the 3 years, you have to say WHY you think it has gone up/down as well….what factors made it change.

And also, absolutely crucial for topic 8 is that you use comparative data…either from another company, or from industry averages, as it is impossible to evaluate how well a company is doing if you have nothing to compare it to.

Hope that helps.

[techno]

Hi guys, I just did Topic 8 and was very surprised to get an A…thanks to a lot of good tips on Opentuition.
amnatariq – what leemce wrote was quite correct….you do not need to have any contact directly with the company in order to do Topic 8 RAP on them….provided you can get all their financial results/annual statements for the 3 year period, and have sufficient news reports etc to be able to analyse their business performance, then you can successfully complete the Topic 8 RAP (this is in fact the reason why so many people choose topic 8) .

I didn’t use any books on financial analysis other than my old ACCA textbooks for past papers, in order to get the formulas correct and refresh my memory as to how to interpret the different ratios.

However, what I did find really useful was the technical articles on the ACCA website…there were loads of really good articles on different business models to use…and they went into just enough depth for me to be able to understand the different models without geting too bogged down (especially as in the end the word count means you can only write a limited amount on a couple of models…there just aren’t enough words available to do loads of indepth business models, especially as you have to also do a decent amount of key financial ratios. So you have to be selective about which models you use…pick the ones that help your RAP the most, and just mention/refer to some of the others, rather than trying to apply them all in full).

Also, there is tonnes of information on the internet on financial analysis and on different business models…

One top tip which was always emphasised to me though was to remember to include in your reference list every website you use in your final RAP, and any books that you draw information from for the RAP (ACCA state that one of the top 4 reasons for why people fail the RAP is lack of proper referencing…so they obviously regard it as very important).

Hope that’s helpful.
Good luck!

[techno]

Many thanks for that Gromit.
I was confused over which way these 2 letters/reports flowed (auditor-BOD or BOD-audtior) so that’s really helped clear that up for me. Thank you.

[techno]

Thanks very much for that excellent explanation Gromit…all this time I thought it was just utilities & expenses, when it actually could be any “purchase” as long as it’s not yet been invoiced & gone into the purchases ledger.
You made that really clear to understand. Thanks so much.

[techno]

Many thanks for your helpful reply Gromit, that’s really cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Thank you.

[techno]

Dec 08, question 4 was a charity.
In the latest BPP kit (published Jan 2010) Q36 – Burton Housing is about a charity.
Q29 Ajio is a charity.
Q59 FireFly is about auditing a club.
Also, in back of the BPP latest Study Text is Q22 Tap!…also a charity.
I’ve not done all these questions myself, so can’t say which are the most useful or not.

[Author]

Posts