[rachuhi1340]

Thank you for your discussion.i appreciate whatever you wrote here. However the audit opinion is very important, but what i thought it was the following: in makeing fraud evrything is tought ahead of time and acted in a very sophisticated manner so that even External auditors may not be able to find its existence. The fact that the previous years calculation was checked and it turned to be true, doesn’t consequently mean that management estimations are free from bias in this year. In the scenario it was written that management ” FEELS ” that the estimated value is correct. Well if they felt that their estimation was correct then why they refused to support their own made estimations with additional written evidence. If someone states something then as a proof to that a wriiten representation just could confirm its truthness. So if management are reluctant to confirm their own statements why external auditors should bear the consequences of its confirmation in the form of audit OPINION? !!!!

In case of SOPHISTICATED FRAUDULENT accounting environment, every action or inaction on MANAGEMENT part should be considered with SCEPTICISM,beause it could be indicating the possibility of FRAUD. SO this was my point.
What regards the audit opinion based on the Technical article data, it could be DISCLAIMER of opinion since the MATTER was both MATERIAL and PERVASIVE.
But i considered the existence of FRAUD, because managerment said they ” FEEL” their estimations are correct but latter refused to give Written representation. Hence no matter the prvious years calculations and the rest…

Of course because of time pressure, during the exam i didn’t mention in details as, i wrote here.

[rachuhi1340]

@swgiant said:
Management unwilling to provide a representation letter, means auditor unable to obtain a sufficient of Audit Evidence. And since it was considered material, so auditor will qualified the audit opinion, “EXCEPT FOR” will included. Well, some said Disclaimer Opinion. But it was wrong due to only ONE item mentioned and NOT many, so it cant be a pervasive.

Thank you for reply. But i would like you discuss further, for example i read in technical article regarding ISA 240 redrafted, it states that wherever management DELIBREATELY do not make a DISCLOSURE or intentionally alter accounting policy then this should be regarded as FRAUD.
SO could we consider DELIBREATELY not giveing WRITTEN REPRESENTATION on their own made estimated values as A FRAUDULENT action. IF YES, then the opinion could be ADVERSE one.. what you think? i will appreciate any REPLIES by anyone. because AUDIT OPINION is a very important issue. THANK YOU.

[rachuhi1340]

@fuego said:
invigilator told me my script wld not be marked in blue pen when i was 1hr plus gone and on my 3rd question,asked for a new booklet so i cld quickly copy everything in black ink,he refused,so afetr abt 3mins of tussle i began turning pages to recopy everything in black ink ! felt f**ked,had to kill some beers before getting home.Lesson learnt.but i will have to pass anyways.
when did they start insisting on black ink ? my last diet was dec07

Before each exam date all students are provided with DOCKETs (regardless of when you have taken an exam last time, ), so it is students responsibility to make sure they have fully understood the requirements for sitting an exam by looking at those Dockets, and about BLACK colored pens there is specially mentioned to be used. Anyway, the invigilator hasn’t acted ethically, but this doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t JUGDE OBJECTIVELY, OK. I hope anyway you would get pass mark ….

[rachuhi1340]

The exam RULES r notified along with dates and any changes in fees each time in Student Accountant magazine, and in addition any relevant information is written in DOCKET. so it is assumed that no student should come to the exam hall without DOCKET. THUS it is students’ RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that they have read all the requirement before sitting an exam paper. The invigilator in his/her part has in this case responsibility but anyway, the PRIMARY responsibility is on student side. THEN remember you r going to be an auditor, so you should be OBJECTIVE, doesn’t this a case that u should JUDGE OBJECTIVELY.

I myself didn’t participate in june exams, but just one day before DECEMEBR F8 exam day made a call to our relevant Center and asked wether there was any change to the location of exam place since i had noticed another address written on my DOCKET. SO if i hadn’t done this i would surely lose one hour inorder toget to new EXAM HALL….

[rachuhi1340]

@baral said:
i agree with all those people listed the conditions before an audit engagement like independence access to record n asking the leaving auditors .i thing d word precondtion was only deir to confuse us.value for money was asking about three es.and thanks god i learnt procedures about accounting estimates.they were
test and review estimate used by management
seek independent external evidence
review any subsequent event.
and plz guys tell me about q1 part a it was totally disaster ias 265

265 it was asking to explain what matters u would consider to be Significant Defiiciency and be reported to Those charged with governounce ,as i remember.

well any error creates doubt for further thinking about it. And i think ANY REPEATED ERRORS could be understood as significant matter, or if a higher level manager donot take care about jod responsibilities, for example the existence of too many unauthorised purchase invoices found during auditing,then this should cause doubt whether that manager gives importance to internal control in general,
or when u are unable to get a managment representation this again is an example that could be reported to those charged with goverance, because otherwise u would modify the report, and disagreement over treatment of depreciation or matters regarding going concern again could be an example to be reported. because it again would affect audit opinion.

The December 2009 exam Q2 i was just such a question.

[rachuhi1340]

@dragon76 said:
What the status of ISA ? what exactly means of this question, pls. ??

The status of ISA… well the name remind us: INTERNATIONAL this means that the ISA has Authority worldwide(like power), and it should be used , but wherever the auditors feel a departure from it is needed then may not use ISA given that a sufficcient justification should be made for departure from ISA.

What is the status of Internal Auditor, what is the status of External auditor. U should think of this way. It means its level of AUTHORITY.

[rachuhi1340]

@satesh said:
Hey this is mentioned in the BPP book… it can include FRAMEWORK APPLICABLE, AGREEMENT ON WRITTEN REPRESENTATIONS and sth like these

well could u think about what is the PRECONDITION for an employee to get the work?

this question i think was just in that way. Inorder auditing be start there r some important issues that should be fixed ahead of time and latter not be blamed for what was not done. Thus the main things are
: fixing AUDIT FEE, and the client’s expectations wether any other service is expected to be done aside from auditing financial statements, and auditors should also consider THEIR own COMPOETENCE : level of expertise, knowledge and training, and more important the business risks ( especially if the client is a new one), and the ethical consideration and availability of any safeguards.
Then as a result an engagement letter is prepared which means accepting the audit.
i wrote these but not in paragraph form just bullet points.

However the question shouldn’t be understood as if requesting the CONTENT of an engagement letter.

[rachuhi1340]

hi everyone,

Well the exam was not difficult even it was INTERESTING. The scenarios in each questions was just lengthy affecting time budgets of students and the use of tricky wording like ” preconditions”, or “status” in their turn forcing to guess the meaning. AND in an INTERNATIONAL level exam the PROFESSIONAL JUDGEMENT is affected under tight time pressure, yet the writing and structure of answering as well.

Anyway, i hope too many will pass . Let hope….

[rachuhi1340]

hi,

Audit process has three main stages it starts with accepting the appointment: if acceptance of audit engagement not be approved by audit firm the audit process over financial statements wont be started. ONCE the egagement was accepted by the audit firm, then they may start the next two stages: the interim audit and the final audit. Most audit tests and substantive procedures occure during this, interim stage of audit. But the audit finalization and issue of REPORT is done in final stage of audit. ONCE the audit report is issued after year end ( after reviweing subsequent events and considering their impact on financial statements) they have no other responsibility with that audit. But some matters may happen later, after the report was issued. So it depends on the facts happening after signing audit report and wether the auditor informed on them, otherwise the audit job upon issuing report is finished.

example by dates:

acceptance of engagement on 25. Nov,2010
start planning , initial strategy development just after that day
interim stage continue….Draft interim reports is now available( probably)
now it is the company year end: 31,Dec,2010
Final stage starts
Subsequent events are reviewed and considered by auditors
discussion with management and other evidence,,, but not like the one in interim stage…
Finalisation and issue of independent audit reprot according to timetable mentioned in the engagemnent letter upon accepting the audit deal of that client.
say on 21,march,2011… this is the end date of audit ( [REMEMBER: the report is the final outcome of audit))

Any events after this date if happen,,, first of all should be informed to auditors, if material,,, any way audit was finished so, no responsibility for auditors… but still they will be responsible if they get known about that events too. So they take relevent actions…. and if a new report is issued on the changed circumstances then the final date for considering the end of audit would be the date of issuing new- changed or modified audit report.

i hope was able to clearly explain your questions.

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