[ashrafaziz]

the examiner dont give any credit for general risks not specific for the scenario

It is not as RAOUL said to gain at minimum 5 risk * 2 marks = 10 marks without reading a word in the scenario

AGAIN NO MARKS FOR SPECULATIVE RISK = GENERAL RISKS = UNSPECIFIC TO THE SCENARIO= WROTE LEARNT RISKS = TEMPLATE RISKS = TYPICAL RISKS

[ashrafaziz]

Sorry Raoul your technique doesn’t work with the examiner

“”I suggest all those complaining read Robertoh posts. Seems like virtually the only person on here who had the right technique and used it.
Fact is I haven’t seen the exam but have just written an answer to Q1 that will get 25 marks minimum. Based only on what requirements say.
So if I can do that without reading a single word of the scenario that is apparently too long, why isn’t every student doing it too?
Having poor exam technique is not the examiner’s fault and if you keep blaming everyone else you will never improve.””

Here is the examiner report Sep 2018 for particularly SPECULATIVE RISK POINT :

Another common mistake candidates made on this requirement was to spend a lot of time discussing
speculative risks which generally do not obtain credit. The fact that a company is multinational with many
subsidiaries does not automatically result in a key audit risk regarding the inability of the company to know
how to perform a consolidation, or to account for foreign currency. The fact that this is not a new client and
the audit engagement partner did not raise any concerns in this regard past should be taken as a sign that
these are things are not key issues. Candidates should instead focus on the details given in the scenario
that the engagement partner thought relevant to highlight. In this case, the acquisition of a new subsidiary
and the risks arising from what is a significant non-routine transaction, the significant spend during the year
on research and development which has been capitalised, and the fact that management does not believe
there is any impairment of assets despite falling revenues. Recent past question answers illustrate the sort
of risks which are considered relevant to the accompanying scenarios. Speculative risks do not attract credit
in the examination and it is surprising that candidates chose to evaluate such risks when there were so many
specific risks contained within the scenario. This session it was disappointing how many candidates opened
with speculative risks such as failure to cancel intercompany balances, failure to account for day-to-day
foreign currency transactions, and the control risk arising from international subsidiaries. Candidates would
score better if they were to prioritise risks in their planning and to focus on the ones described in detail by the
examiner in the scenario rather than reproducing a rote learnt list of general points which do not demonstrate
any application of knowledge to the scenario itself

[ashrafaziz]

@anngreed said:

@jeggs and everyone else !! Finally passed audit after 4 times Do not dare give up I got stuck on 40 percent and thought I passed 3 times and failed !! Next time just print off exam papers !!! And ready solutions !!! That’s all do all question 2 then all questions 3 then all questions 4s . Etc!!! And use sticky notes to mark the page/paragraph I’m the exam solutions what you don’t get/ find difficult and then at the end you’ll only be reading the pages/paragraphs which has sticky notes !!! Also write out all the business risks on one a4 sheet of paper really small from exam papers and same wit audit risks!!! The thing I learned from the lectures was you don’ttttt need to write inherent risk / audit risk / detection risk beside each risk! Also where one question has 3 questions on it for professional issues/ ethics and something else ( I forget) you don’ttttt have to worry about after each point yu Make was that ethical / professional issue/ QC you don’t have do separate answers for these or state what point you covered again it’s mind dump and don’t worry !!THIS ONLY APPLIES TO QUESTION 1 risks and also the ethical/qc and professional ethics questions!!!! The reason I passed this time was because I concentrated more on this question ethics!! Before I was like oh I get ethics/QC/professional ussrs it’s easy but I never got it in the three exams ! Also in the free lectures he explains these 3 also !!!) he is amazing honestly !!’ These three are is so so so important!!!! Also you need to write notes from the lectures sonyou can reread again and again as if you don’t it’s a waste of time watching these lectures !!! Also You don’t get points unless you write down a safe guard for ethics !!!! You need to get a4 sheet of paper too like I told you to do with the audit risks and business risks for ethics also if you want to pass !!! Also that last exam I passed I messed up wit time management but I think the ethical questions saved me !!!! So time is number 1!!! Go into the same read the questions !!!! Not the case study !!! The questions !! And write down little things you need to remember at start of exam . do all
This for 10/15 min max max max max !! And start off with q2 or q3!!! Don’t do question 1!!!! Just don’t !!!! And I spent too much time in the last exam writing out isa at start of exam and loads of things I needed to remember on page 1 of answer booklet and I couldn’t decide what question I would do for thirty minutes of the exam !!!!!! Terrible !!!!! Again the ethics/Qc/prof issues/ questions saved me this time!! You need to look at those free lectures and listen to this advice and you will pass !!! Don’t get hung up on isa I didn’t have time to put in anymore then maybe 1 of these one time and still passed !!!! And I just said isa x communication with client …. just the basic meaning of each one !!! Again if I was doing again I would make sure to be able to audit computations as you can see from this September exam there was a lot of accounts and numbers so here I would print off exam paper and just read solution for each computation and keep doing that ! And again use sticky note to and red pen on solutions at stuff you’ll need to remember !!!! If anyone had questions or wants my notes for p2/p6/p7 let me know !!! I will help you pass all of these as I struggled so much with these 3!!! But I just kept kept kept going !!! Don’t give up you will regret it !!! So keep going il help you!!! And I can photo copy my isa and ias and all my notes for u and you’ll get it the next time !!! It’s 50 percent knowledge and 50 percent exam technique if you don’t have exam technique you’ll fail!!!! And I never had this until the last one and still messed up on time ! You will never ever ever be perfect ! Let me help you because I know how horrendous it is but at the end you’ll be relieved honestly so keep at it and take my advice and you’ll pass the next time !! Also don’t forget your professional marks !!! And bullet point space bullet point space for whole exam !!! Don’t start on q1!!! And you don’t have to waste time deciding what questions you will do just pick q2/q3 whatever one you prefer and go back to questions you don’t get !! Do not waste time trying to think of what to write just highlight and come back at the end as stuff will come flowing to you then!!! Also use materiality !!!! You get a mark every time you calc this it’s v v each!! Watch those lectures and write notes on them ! He is brilliant !!also for ias just know 2/3 main points from
Each standard again I can give you my notes!! Contact me if you want my notes and advice ??! Ann:) don’t give up!!! And if I can do it ANYONE can!!!!! I’m average average average ;)))

Thank you for your advice very very very very much
You spread a POSITIVE ENERGY to those who failed on Sep 2018
Thanks for your hope , i think that is the most important thing to those who failed for more than 1 time in P7 because they came to a moment when they feel it is impossible to pass and no hope at all to pass P7 and in the same time they cant switch to another P because they already done a big effort in P7 and become familiar with the exam and questions but they cant reach this damned 50 point of pass

[ashrafaziz]

Again Raoul 7370 highlight from a tutor perspective the conflict of why examiner think that questions are achievable in 3.15 hours while students ( including me of course ) left the exam hall completely frustrated & assured that there no hope to pass P7 due to lack of time not lack of knowledge and i think it need a miracle to pass

Thank you Raoul 7370 for this glimmer of hope to pass P7 , lets try to apply his comments on Dec 2018 as all focus on one issue which is time saving technique

[ashrafaziz]

@ashrafaziz said:
Let’s be practical & look forward to Dec 2018 session

i extract from this useful debate 2 points as possible solution of almost impossible P7 exam :

1- { Students should have started from Q2 and 3 and grab maximum points which is closer to 37 marks and then go on to scavenge for 20 marks in Q1. }

Begin with Q2 & Q3 while you are still fresh mind as its scenario is shorter than Q1 to guarantee at least 30 out of 50 points in 1st 105 minutes

2- { I sat four mocks before the exam all under exam conditions. 3 from the BBP kit and another from my college. When I was doing that exam, it was virtually like sitting it a fifth time. And I sucked hard my first two mock attempts believe me. }

Try mock exams under real timing & under real exam conditions , specially , try Q1
mocks only under 90 Minutes 4 times at least before sitting an exam as most of the complaints arise from Q1

CAN ANY ONES ADD TO THESE POINTS TO HELP TO PASS NEXT TIME ?

{ But still the fact that saddens me the most is that the specimen paper, brought out months in advance of this sitting, is almost identical to the September paper. Any student who had practised it would have been very well set for Monday’s paper. The comments on here should be saying “nice of the examiner to ease us in gently to the new format with such predictable questions similar to the specimen”}

This is true 100% , i tried the specimen paper many times before exam , and when i sit i got astonished from copy and paste of this specimen , this the ONLY positive point in the exam

raoul7370 comments and opinion is very useful as i said it before , thank you Raoul very much for your points of view , otherwise guys , we will be kept blind form examiners approach , we will never know how they think

Thanks to Raoul we touch the core point which result in the same , identical comments published in the examiner report on every exam , on the other side , students keep complaining from the same issues in every sitting, and the same problems will never be solved , in the end we have to “work within the framework forced on us”. as ALAYA said

The examiner report never disclose to us the points which Raoul uncover as examiner report always answers points specific to each exam question not overall approach of thinking applicable to any exam as Raoul explain

last point , i am somehow frustrated after leaving the exam hall this time , (3 thd time in P7 ) because i think that there are no solution to pass P7 , but i have to confess that there is many points that i didn’t study diligently like QC in audit of last question , what i want to say that if we must be honest with ourselves and cover all the syllabus 200% to be ready to write on any topic once we read the question , the very very very good preparation will kill the shortage in time problem

[ashrafaziz]

{ But still the fact that saddens me the most is that the specimen paper, brought out months in advance of this sitting, is almost identical to the September paper. Any student who had practised it would have been very well set for Monday’s paper. The comments on here should be saying “nice of the examiner to ease us in gently to the new format with such predictable questions similar to the specimen”}

This is true 100% , i tried the specimen paper many times before exam , and when i sit i got astonished from copy and paste of this specimen , this the ONLY positive point in the exam

raoul7370 comments and opinion is very useful as i said it before , thank you Raoul very much for your point of view , otherwise guys we will be kept blind form examiners approach , we will never know how they think ,

[ashrafaziz]

sd

[ashrafaziz]

{ es, the requirement said “You are not required to consider audit risks relating to disclosure, as these will be
planned for later in the audit process.”}

[ashrafaziz]

Let’s be practical & look forward to Dec 2018 session

i extract from this useful debate 2 points as possible solution of almost impossible P7 exam :

1- { Students should have started from Q2 and 3 and grab maximum points which is closer to 37 marks and then go on to scavenge for 20 marks in Q1. }

Begin with Q2 & Q3 while you are still fresh mind as its scenario is shorter than Q1 to guarantee at least 30 out of 50 points in 1st 105 minutes

2- { I sat four mocks before the exam all under exam conditions. 3 from the BBP kit and another from my college. When I was doing that exam, it was virtually like sitting it a fifth time. And I sucked hard my first two mock attempts believe me. }

Try mock exams under real timing & under real exam conditions , specially , try Q1
mocks only under 90 Minutes 4 times at least before sitting an exam as most of the complaints arise from Q1

CAN ANY ONES ADD TO THESE POINTS TO HELP TO PASS NEXT TIME ?

[ashrafaziz]

Hopping that corrector take into consideration that the length of 5 Exhibits of Q1 under new format is much more hard than time saving gained by avoiding reading 3 optional scenario to select 2 from

[ashrafaziz]

@alayanic18 said:
Dear raoul7370,

Maybe 22+ year experienced tutors/markers/examiners should pay a visit to real life from time to time as they seem to be totally missing the point:

”There are not 15 mins of reading time. Haven’t been for years. By the time 15 mins were up, you should have had 6 ratios calculated for 2 years and Briefing notes set up and have 9 marks minimum in the bank.”
Audit should not be about how many marks you have in the bank, a good auditor should perform a proper understanding of the client, through meetings/discussions with client management and personnel SUPPORTED BY THE analytical review performed. In exam conditions this means that it should not be enough to just calculate random ratios, you have to spend TIME to understand what are the most relevant ones for your client/client industry e.g. there is no point in computing inventory turnover if the balance is immaterial as you are dealing with a services company – you can learn this by reading the question, not just the requirement.

”The key is to provide 18 marks of answer, not answer the entire scenario (where she provides too many risks so that everyone will find some, not to overload you)”,
”The moment you see a new sub acquired, that is overseas, even if story says same year end, they use IFRS and have same acc policies, and even with story saying ignore disclosure risks (I did not do the exam but am told it said that?), you have at least 4 audit risks (initial GW, impaired GW at y/e, forex retranslation, pre v post acqn reserves calc). That is 8 marks if well explained. Add on 6 for ratios, 3 for Prof Marks, and surely there are 4 standard goodwill tests on any company and you have 21 already having barely touched the scenario (if at all). No controls testing, and use of IA staff, must be worth at least 2 easy marks? That’s 23 and still haven’t read the story that everyone will always say is too long.”
”As I said to one of my class, if you think you have too many risks be happy. Shows you know what you are doing. Just go with those you are most comfortable explaining and ditch the rest. Has always been like this, and I don’t understand why so many students think they have to cover every available point”.
In real life an auditor should consider ALL the significant risks that the client is facing, not just the most obvious ones and most certainly not just the ones that he has time to look into or the ones that he is most comfortable with/understands. Again this means TIME spent understanding the client. Risk assessment should mean likelihood, impact, prioritization, thus TIME. There is a reason for that time resource prerequisite when accepting an audit, don’t you think?

”Fact is I haven’t seen the exam but have just written an answer to Q1 that will get 25 marks minimum. Based only on what requirements say. So if I can do that without reading a single word of the scenario that is apparently too long, why isn’t every student doing it too? Having poor exam technique is not the examiner’s fault and if you keep blaming everyone else you will never improve” ”The very fact you say I should see the paper before commenting shows the problem. No I don’t need to see it, because the scenario is not the key to passing this, it is the requirements.
many students having appalling technique for this paper”
This here is actually the biggest issue – you see, a proper audit exam would not allow passing it without reading the question, exam technique should not be the key to passing, professional judgement and scepticism should be the key. The equivalent in real life means do the minimum work in the time assigned, do not extend audit procedures if you have a riskier client, thus sacrifice quality. As long as you get the big fat fee/50% mark, it is ok.

”All exam papers are “trial sat””
By whom? Tutors, students, auditors? Skilled in exam technique or in audit?

”But if you have fallen foul to overrunning due to a failure to do the above, worry not (well not too much). So many people will have done the same, and surely ACCA want a pass rate no worse than 30%”, ”Rest assured the pass rate will not change much, which should mean that nobody has any more or less chance of success than they would have done under the old format.”
This is just sad, I always suspected pass rate manipulation as there was no change in trend except for cases in which the examiner or exam structure changed e.g. the artificial increase for P3 up to 56% before the merger with P1.

To conclude, if this exam would practice what it preaches, maybe we would not see so many audit failures involving qualified professionals…

BIG CHAPEAU TO Alaya

Very reasonable & open-minded arguments and very convincing debate

From examiners point of view, the intensive , exaggerated and excessive focus on the exam techniques to pass and collect points through minimal reading in very tight timings conditions take us away from the overall aim of the ACCA qualification which is producing a final product ” Qualified Accountant/Auditor ” who can deals and challenge in real life situations

“And in the real world, technique is crucial in audit as well. There is a lot of work in auditing now days to do an acceptable, high quality audit. Having the skills to perform a time efficient audit that is worth the time and money, while not sacrificing any of the quality that you absolutely need to provide, is arguably the biggest challenge audit firms face and with so much competition for fees it only gets harder ”
In fact , in real world , this pretended exam technique promote heavily the time efficiency at the expense of sacrificing the audit quality

”All exam papers are “trial sat””
“By whom? Tutors, students, auditors? Skilled in exam technique or in audit?”
This is true , any proof by which ACCA can substantiate this statement ?? i mean to be tested by expert in exam sitting Not expert in audit only

”There are not 15 mins of reading time. Haven’t been for years. By the time 15 mins were up, you should have had 6 ratios calculated for 2 years and Briefing notes set up and have 9 marks minimum in the bank.”
Every thing in life is subject of changes to reflect current , recent situations , events and circumstances , why this holy and sacred 15 minutes will be forever constant and not flexible to changes according to the new format ? Why not to study extension of time to 45 instead of 15 if there is wide consensus that is too short ?

If this poll & other surveys on any accounting forums are waste of time and useless as many argues and nothing will change by the ACCA . Why ACCA conduct any survey / scanning or what will the benefit of any feed backs ? This will lead a rigidity in policies , and in approaches which will keep ACCA back in comparison with other bodies

[ashrafaziz]

@raoul7370 said:
and people wonder why the ACCA pass rates are so low…

All exam papers are “trial sat” to ensure they are fair and reasonable. I suggest anyone who thinks they might not have passed puts their energies into changing their preparation for next time, rather than putting the blame on everyone except themselves.

Of course, I saw this coming (any experienced P7 tutor would have done). I was talking with the examiner late last week and forewarned her that thanks to so many students having appalling technique for this paper, a long story with numbers on Q1 was going to make matters worse (I suspect she was expecting it too to be honest).

Rest assured the pass rate will not change much, which should mean that nobody has any more or less chance of success than they would have done under the old format.

On the contrary , we don t search a peg on which to hang mistakes , and try to find excuses to ourselves , we just feedback the first attempt of new exam format to the examiners otherwise the main issues will remain unchanged , particularly i found consensus on timing issue

Personally , I benefited from your opinion very much which say that too many figures and long story mean too many risks to select from with minimum reading of the full story and i will try to apply this approach next time to focus my energy to pass and not to blame others

[ashrafaziz]

On the contrary , we don t search a peg on which to hang mistakes , and try to find excuses to ourselves , we just feedback the first attempt of new exam format to the examiners otherwise the main issues will remain unchanged , particularly , i found consensus on timing issue on this new format

Personally , I benefited from your opinion very much which say that too many figures and long story mean too many risks to select from with minimum reading of the full story and i will try to apply this approach next time to focus my energy to pass and not to blame others

[ashrafaziz]

Dear Colleagues

I think we should file a petition for P7 at ( students@accaglobal.com ) for not completing the paper on time due to it being extremely long because :

1-It is the 1st trial for ACCA in introducing the new format compulsory exam and i think a
trial version of the exam should be tested by the examiner itself ( asssuming that
she have full technical knowledge to answer all the questions ) to assess only timing
required to :

Firstly: Reading time 4 Exhibits of Q1 + 2 others questions each is spitted in a)+b)
sub questions and each a) &b) is spitted into 2 main points

Secondly : Planning time to answers the overall the question & imagine in
mind the main points sequences before the pen touch the paper

Thirdly : Writing time the correct answers in full details to get full mark of each risk
to proof to examiners that i understand the requirements as
recommended by ACCA in technical articles

A part from time for thinking in technical knowledge of the core question ,Reading
+Planning +Writing i think need fairly 4 hours

3-Assuming that a candidate knowledge cover 90 % of the corrects answers , i.e. he is ready to pass and cover the syllabus by a 90% , he also must got panic , blacked out , exhausted when reaching Q 3 due to lack of time required to 1-Think in 10% lack of Knowledge 2-Reading 3-Planning 4-Writing

4-The issue of time shortage especially in Q1 outweigh outweigh the pretended benefits of time saving because students have no longer to read 3 questions to opt 2 out of 3 .
ACCA must review it point of view with an expert in setting exam techniques NOT ONLY expert in advanced audit materials

5-For those who compare timing of ACCA exams to others post grad professional qualifications , i think it is cost -benefit criterion which mean that CFA exam timing is extremely severe however its reward is more promising , so it can t be compared to other qualifications

6- I think most of us can pass by at least 50% if they answers verbally or even by KB in a Computer Based Exam to avoid hand writing waste time which make our hand paralyzed by end of 3 hours , consequently , ACCA in fact is testing our hand writing skills + our rest muscles rather than core knowledge

7-The suggested solution is extending time to 4 h under new exam format or examiners give some compensations and reduce correction criteria for this session

[ashrafaziz]

T

[Author]

Posts