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Neptune (june 2008 question)

Forums › Ask ACCA Tutor Forums › Ask the Tutor ACCA AFM Exams › Neptune (june 2008 question)

  • This topic has 9 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by John Moffat.
Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
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  • August 6, 2016 at 11:01 am #331690
    cyh
    Member
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 42
    • ☆☆

    Neptune (june 2008 question)

    Hi Sir, i have two queries on this question:

    1. (extracted from the question) : In the first two years of operations, acceptance of this project will mean that other work making a net contribution before indirect costs of $150 million for each of the first two years will not be able to proceed

    i am not understand why this related to the redeployment of labour $150m?

    2. Capital allowances

    since this question mentioned tax payment/credit/charged will be paid/received 12 months after they arise.

    My query is why the first tax benefit on capital allowances $120m is not incurred in year 2009 and claim in year 2010?

    August 6, 2016 at 4:43 pm #331706
    John Moffat
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 54660
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    1. I assume that you are happy with the opportunity cost of $150M itself. Why the examiner called it redeployment of labour, I have no idea (that is just one possible reason for it happening). What you call it is irrelevant in the exam – I would simply call it lost contribution.

    2. This question was set by the previous examiner, and it was obvious from a few of his answers that he did not understand tax so well! The capital allowance benefits should have started one year later. (Also, he has calculated writing down allowance in the final year and shown tax on proceeds – although the end result would be the same, there should not be WDA and tax on proceeds, it should be a balancing charge)

    I know that might sound worrying, but the markers for P4 are very good and know the subject. They would pick this up in the marking and it would be discussed and full marks would be given to those who did it correctly.
    The current examiner does seem to understand how tax works 🙂

    August 6, 2016 at 4:55 pm #331712
    cyh
    Member
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 42
    • ☆☆

    if i ignore this opportunity cost in my NPV calculation, is it wrong? or we must included this loss as part of our cost?

    August 6, 2016 at 4:59 pm #331716
    John Moffat
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 54660
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    It would certainly be wrong to ignore it.

    Whatever the description, the question specifically says that acceptance of the project will mean that other work will not be able to proceed and therefore doing this project will lose 150M for each of the two years that would otherwise have been earned – i.e. an opportunity cost.

    February 10, 2021 at 3:07 pm #609938
    Stephen
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 18
    • ☆

    hi sir, sorry for messaging an old post. I was wondering why is the ‘add back TAD’ method not working here..please advise…

    February 11, 2021 at 7:55 am #609991
    John Moffat
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 54660
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    We only add back the capital allowances if they had previously been subtracted.

    Here they have not been. The answer has calculated the tax on the operating cash flows (without any depreciation having been subtracted) and then shows the tax saved on the capital allowances.

    So there are no ‘non-cash’ flows and so nothing to be added back.

    February 11, 2021 at 9:33 am #610015
    Stephen
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 18
    • ☆

    Hi sir, thank you for your kind reply.

    I have tested this by subtracting the TAD first (before Op profit) and then adding back TAD (after PAT) – Unfortunately I could not get the same answer.

    My working as follows:
    TAD:
    T1) 800 x 50% = 400
    T2) 400 x 40% = 160
    T3) 160 x (1-40%) = 96
    T4) 96 x (1-40%) = 57.6
    T5) 57.6 x (1-40%) = 34.56
    T6) Balancing = 11.84
    Total: Initial 800 – scrap 40 = 760

    Note: (1-40%) is a scaling factor due to reducing balance method.

    For your information, I have attempted many past year questions using this same method and I always could get thru. But I can’t help but wonder why this time my method is not working.

    I am sorry I was hoping to stick with the same method to avoid confusion.

    Would appreciate if you could shed some light on this difficult part.

    Thanks a lot.

    February 11, 2021 at 2:53 pm #610051
    John Moffat
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 54660
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    I think your problem has arisen because the question had a rather ridiculous bit of working in it that strictly is wrong. (This was the previous examiner and he didn’t seem to really understand how tax works. Fortunately the current examiner does understand and so the problem does not these days arise 🙂 I do explain this in my very first reply to this thread!)

    The question said that the charges are “12 months after they arise”.
    As a result he has charged the first tax on the profits before allowances at time 2, and he has had the first capital allowances at time 1.
    This is not what should happen. The first profits are indeed taxed at time 2, but as far as the capital allowances are concerned, since the investment was on 1 July 2008 (time 0), the allowances are calculated at 30 June 2009 (time 1) and the tax affect occurs one year later at 30 June 2010 (time 2).

    Although the answer strictly follows the instructions, the instructions are not what happens in practice (or in current exam questions).

    Doing it the correct way, then the two approaches give the following at time 1 and time 2

    Doing it the examiners way:

    Operating cash flow……………….122 …………… 210
    Tax on operating flow…………….. – ……………. (36) (tax on time 1 with a 1 year delay)
    Saving on CA’s…………………….. – ……………. 120. (on time 1 TAD’s with a 1 year delay)

    Net cash flow………………………..122 …………….. 294

    Doing it your way:

    Operating cash flow………………122…………………210
    CA’s…………………………………..(400)………………(160)

    Taxable profit………………………(278)………………..50
    Tax (1 year later)………………….. – ………………….83 (30% x 278)

    Add back CA’s…………………….400………………..160

    Net cash flow………………………122………………. 293 (the difference of 1 is rounding and is irrelevant)

    Both approaches will give the same result except in one situation. In Paper FM (was F9) new investments were in the same country and we always assumed the company was making plenty of profit elsewhere. So a loss on the new investment simply results in a reduction in the companies profit and therefore a tax saving.

    In Paper AFM, the new investment is often in a different country, in which case a loss does not reduce existing profits for tax purposes but results in loss relief – no tax in the year of the loss, but then the loss reduces the taxable profits in the following year.

    Because investing abroad is very common in Paper AFM it is safer to use the examiners way (even though this particular question was stupid for the reasons I have explained).

    February 11, 2021 at 11:29 pm #610093
    Stephen
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 18
    • ☆

    Noted and Thank you so much sir for your time 🙂

    February 12, 2021 at 7:22 am #610104
    John Moffat
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 54660
    • ☆☆☆☆☆

    You are welcome 🙂

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  • The topic ‘Neptune (june 2008 question)’ is closed to new replies.

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