I am still a little confused about the dates and when will the first tax saving be. When you were discussing the Buy option you assumed that 2011 was going to be first year when we were to use the machine and we bought it on the 31st of Dec 2010.

Now I know that you assumed these dates just to give us the concept but from reading the question I don’t understand how can we say that 2010 is the current financial year on the last day of which the machine is bought and that 2011 will be the next year.

We are at the moment considering whether to buy or lease a new machine.
So we have not bought it yet and therefore the first year we will use it is next year.

The question says if we buy then it will be bought on the last day of the current year, and if we lease it then we will pay at the start of the year, so the first payment will be on the first day of next year.

The last day of this year and the first day of next year are both time 0 (we are never worried about one day when it comes to discounting), but – as I explain in the lecture – it will affect the timing of the tax flows.

good lecture sir,but i have on problem. if the lease payment was at the end of the year,in which year we should have claimed the benefit. please explain?

Yes (unless, of course, the same cost has to be paid if it is leased as well, in which case you can either bring it in for both or leave it out for both)

“If the machine is purchased,payment will be made in january of the first year of operation”
“if leased, annual lease rentals will be paid in january of each year of operation”
for me in both situation it is T0- 1.january??? could you explain???

I don’t know where you are quoting this from – it is not what the question in the lecture notes says (I assume that you have printed out the lecture notes?).

The first lease payment and the purchase of the machine are both effectively at time 0. It is the tax that is affected.

i have found in some answers of revision kit that while taking tax benefit of lease rentals in NPV calculation, examiner has claimed the benefit after one year and the other answer includes the same scenario with a claim after 2 years.
can u pls tell the reason and difference of both of these treatments?

One is whether the lease payments are at the start or the end of the years.
The second is whether tax is payable without delay or whether there is a one year delay.

I go through the rules regarding the date of payment of the tax in the lecture on DCF and taxation, although it is really only in lease buy questions that it becomes an important factor.

vida says

hi john,

i will like to know if there is a maintenance part of a question to the lease, can we make tax savings on the maintenance cost?

John Moffat says

Yes – maintenance costs would reduce the taxable profit and therefore result in a tax saving.

Arun says

Hi John,

I am still a little confused about the dates and when will the first tax saving be. When you were discussing the Buy option you assumed that 2011 was going to be first year when we were to use the machine and we bought it on the 31st of Dec 2010.

Now I know that you assumed these dates just to give us the concept but from reading the question I don’t understand how can we say that 2010 is the current financial year on the last day of which the machine is bought and that 2011 will be the next year.

I hope I was able to get my concern across.

Thanks.

John Moffat says

We are at the moment considering whether to buy or lease a new machine.

So we have not bought it yet and therefore the first year we will use it is next year.

The question says if we buy then it will be bought on the last day of the current year, and if we lease it then we will pay at the start of the year, so the first payment will be on the first day of next year.

The last day of this year and the first day of next year are both time 0 (we are never worried about one day when it comes to discounting), but – as I explain in the lecture – it will affect the timing of the tax flows.

tami005 says

good lecture sir,but i have on problem. if the lease payment was at the end of the year,in which year we should have claimed the benefit. please explain?

John Moffat says

I assume you mean the tax benefit. It would still be first at time 2.

If it is not clear why then you really should watch the lecture on investment appraisal with tax.

aanaa says

sir,why didn’t you calculate tax payable when DCF for buying option???

John Moffat says

What tax payable?

The tax effect of buying the machine is the tax saving from the capital allowances, and this I do calculate.

aanaa says

sir,what if there is any cost of buying the machine,eg: licence fee..

do we have to calculate the tax saving from the cost as well..??

John Moffat says

Yes (unless, of course, the same cost has to be paid if it is leased as well, in which case you can either bring it in for both or leave it out for both)

aanaa says

“If the machine is purchased,payment will be made in january of the first year of operation”

“if leased, annual lease rentals will be paid in january of each year of operation”

for me in both situation it is T0- 1.january??? could you explain???

John Moffat says

I don’t know where you are quoting this from – it is not what the question in the lecture notes says (I assume that you have printed out the lecture notes?).

The first lease payment and the purchase of the machine are both effectively at time 0. It is the tax that is affected.

zain says

i have found in some answers of revision kit that while taking tax benefit of lease rentals in NPV calculation, examiner has claimed the benefit after one year and the other answer includes the same scenario with a claim after 2 years.

can u pls tell the reason and difference of both of these treatments?

John Moffat says

It depends on two things.

One is whether the lease payments are at the start or the end of the years.

The second is whether tax is payable without delay or whether there is a one year delay.

I go through the rules regarding the date of payment of the tax in the lecture on DCF and taxation, although it is really only in lease buy questions that it becomes an important factor.

zain says

yes i got that but how can we differentiate between these two treatments? what hint will ques provide?? please answer

your’s grateful

John Moffat says

The question always tell you whether payments are in advance or arrears, and always tells you when the tax is payable!